Unsuck DC Metro: Who Causes Door Problems?

Thursday, February 16, 2012

Who Causes Door Problems?

Oops. Hello third rail. This is most definitely not a rider's fault.

A spate of recent offloads can be blamed on door problems with the 2000-series cars, according to a very knowledgeable Metro source.

"We're having a lot of problems with the 2000's doors," they said.

They said the doors may actually be fully shut, but certain switches may not be thrown to indicate to the operator that the doors are fully shut, leading to an offload.

The source added that Metro management has been notified of the problem, but to date, no solution has been offered.

"That tells me they don't know what the problem is," they said.

In late 2010, there were systematic issues with the doors on the 4000-series cars, causing Metro to yank them all from service.

Despite all of this, Metro loves to blame the door problems (and escalator problems) on riders. Sure, it's sometimes true, I guess, but when I recall the times I've been offloaded for a "door problem," the train has never been bursting at the seams with riders. Doubtful those were riders' fault.

Given Metro's opaqueness, I guess we'll never really know.

But, for the sake of argument, let's accept that some percentage of door issues are the fault of riders.

Even so, it is NEVER OK for Metro operators to rudely berate riders in the officious, threatening tone they often take. They other day, one operator was yelling at riders as if we were criminals at every stop from Metro Center to Rosslyn, all the while threatening to offload.

But again, let's be forgiving and look at it from the operator's point of view. They're pressured to get moving, so maybe they get a little worked up and let loose on the riders.

Then you just have to turn to Twitter for more Metro callousness. Metro is more than happy to set you straight about who's at fault. The "not blaming" one is classic.

Other items:
Dulles tolls could triple to pay for Silver Line (WaPo)
Metro's oversight of IT contractors lacking (WMATA)

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+12 Vote up Vote down

@VeggieTart · 683 weeks ago

When they have to take a whole series of cars out of service because of door problems, I'm pretty sure it's NOT the fault of the passengers. And if the doors are so weak that passengers leaning on them--which they shouldn't--cause a malfunction, then that's also not entirely the fault of the passengers. And for those issues that passengers can control, a polite request not to block doors open or lean on them should do.

+30 Vote up Vote down

Anony · 683 weeks ago

Even when it is the riders' fault for a door not closing, that can often be rightfully blamed on WMATA for not being on-time, thereby causing overcrowded situations.

Let's be honest. If there was a way they could blame track circuit malfunctions on customers, they would. It's a dishonest organization who accepts no responsibility at any level.

+4 Vote up Vote down

Anon5 · 683 weeks ago

Are there any rules about how many times an operator must try to close the doors before they have to offload the passengers? At least on two occasions I remember, the operator closed the door, it re-opened, pretty much threatened to kill every single living thing on her train, closed it again, re-opened, and told everyone to get out. That's only twice. C'mon, at least three times to give people to pull in their belongings if it's in the doorway!

+28 Vote up Vote down

sdfsdf · 683 weeks ago

Metro's twitter stream is one of the snarkiest i've ever seen. if you want to learn how NOT to use social media to enhance your image, do as Metro.

1 reply · active 683 weeks ago

+24 Vote up Vote down

Metro Ryder · 683 weeks ago

I think they often pass snarky by and go straight to asshole.

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@ChrisHowdy · 683 weeks ago

Curious how many trains are offloaded a day on the NYC subway for door problems? The T in Boston? etc, etc, etc. Somehow all the customers there manage not to be an issue.

You've bought substandard equipment and maintained it poorly for decades. Don't blame the paying public for it.

1 reply · active 683 weeks ago

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Beck · 683 weeks ago

Absolutely. I grew up in the Boston area and I took the T for years. It's by no means a perfect system (and it's much older and creakier than Metro) but I've never been offloaded, even when the train is packed from wall to wall. Maybe it HAS happened before, but not to me.

+10 Vote up Vote down

John · 683 weeks ago

Last Friday, at Rosslyn, an operator left the door open for about 10 seconds. The door apparently almost destroyed a stroller that a woman was bringing on the train. This was not a case of a woman using a stroller to prop the doors open, this one of those cases of the operator being in such a hurry that people can't even get off the train. This caused an offloading at the height of rush hour. This was in a night where there were a few offloadings on the blue/orange line, followed by a fire near Archives that screwed up the Yellow/Green line.

Stessel probably wanted to blame both on the customers....

8 replies · active 683 weeks ago

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UnSuck Fan · 683 weeks ago

Sorry, John, but my reply doesn’t exactly have anything to do with your comment, but it seems like the one I can tie my comment do.

Anyway, I’m not trying to start a riot here, but as a person who doesn’t have children I have to ask those of you who do: Why don’t you close up your stroller beforehand and then board the train with your child in your arms?

I was getting on the train last night and waited until a mother and her stroller seated child got on before boarding after them. I was wondering what would happen if they didn’t make it on or if the stroller was caught in the door. Would she have tried to “ram” the doors open to make sure they got on or would the stroller have been crushed as it wasn’t one of those behemoth ones?

+4 Vote up Vote down

John · 683 weeks ago

The mother thankfully WAS carrying the child in her arms... if she didn't the kid would have been seriously injured!

+6 Vote up Vote down

red line · 683 weeks ago

If the kid is older and it's an umbrella stroller, that is feasible. Some strollers don't fold or are too heavy, and many of them for infants have a car seat component that would have to come out first. This is heavy and may be difficult to take apart so I can see why it may not be feasible, esp. if it is only one person with the stroller/baby.

+1 Vote up Vote down

UnSuck Fan · 683 weeks ago

Thank you, red line. Yes, more often than not, I see umbrella strollers and wonder why mothers don’t fold them up and carry their child on board. The woman I saw last night was using an umbrella stroller. Although it probably serves its purpose so the mother wouldn't have to carry her child, there’s no way I’d risk a child’s life by having him/her in one of those knowing it could get crushed instantly in the train doors.

-14 Vote up Vote down

anon · 683 weeks ago

you're an idiot the doors are not strong enough to crush anything.

+4 Vote up Vote down

anon · 683 weeks ago

Really? Put your head in there, then.

-3 Vote up Vote down

anon · 683 weeks ago

you all are idiots

+4 Vote up Vote down

Sam · 683 weeks ago

A lot of the time, the operator gets blamed for this but "being in a hurry" is only the case because of the timing restrictions placed on the operators by the central control. Operators have X seconds to clear the station. Whether or not they are actually in a hurry has no bearing on it.

Rosslyn, unfortunately, gets a lot of this brunt because the switch at that station is already at capacity at rush hour, which is part of the reason WMATA is working to re-route blue line trains over the yellow line bridge. Otherwise, there'd be no slots for silver line trains.

+1 Vote up Vote down

UnSuck Fan · 683 weeks ago

Oh, one of these. ;-)

This will always be one of those questions; six of one kind and a half dozen of the other. I don’t particularly fall into either of those groups because it will always be one or the other. However, I do agree that the train operator should have handled it better. Since it’s not always clear what is causing the door malfunction, they don’t need to insult us and blame us for what they believe is causing the problem. I’ve heard many other train operators inform us that they are door problems and that if we are the cause of it, to please move away from the doors. I’ve also other train operators inform us of door problems and that if we see what the problem is do help alleviate the problem.

While there is no right or wrong answer, the interaction should have been different.

+3 Vote up Vote down

Steve · 683 weeks ago

On more then one occasion on the Green & Red Lines, I have experienced the train operators asking the passengers over the intercom to *try* to fix the doors ourselves!

It usually starts with the "If you are leaning on the doors, please move away" announcement ... then after the door tries to close unsuccessfully a few times, they have come back on intercom and instructed passengers to "help" close the doors... one time this past fall, the request for passengers to help was accompanied with the "If we can't get the doors closed, we will have to unload the train" warning... which didn't help the situation at all.

Amazingly, we did not get unloaded either time that this happened, but this is REALLY not the right way to handle a repair situation!

1 reply · active 683 weeks ago

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Sam · 683 weeks ago

I hear that too on many occasions. "If you see a door that is stuck, please try to close it."

It's funny that when you ask a union member to even think about doing something that is outside of their contract, they'll sue. But they want me to do something that isn't my responsibility? When they start paying me, I'll start working on their trains.

+6 Vote up Vote down

John · 683 weeks ago

Yesterday I was on the Orange line, heading to Vienna. Train stopped at Farragut, and we were waiting due to a door problem. The operator kept yelling at the passengers (train was already crowded) but we didnt get offloaded. all the sudden, a metro employee in a vest opens the door across from me. Then they opened the hatch above the door and did something, then shut the door. After that, we moved on to the next stop.

Wasn't a customers fault at all!

+11 Vote up Vote down

16 cents · 683 weeks ago

I love the fact that @wmata seemed to miss the point all together. It was about how rude the operator was and @wmata just ignored that over and over again.

When I see someone force the door open to get their friends and such in I want to throw something at him or her.

+4 Vote up Vote down

NaK · 683 weeks ago

I commuted on Tokyo trains for three years. THAT is a crowded system. I don't ever recall door problems like we have in DC. The new trains better have stronger doors. If not, that is Metro's fault for not improving the system.

1 reply · active 683 weeks ago

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DC Denizen · 683 weeks ago

Ditto- rode Tokyo trains MANY times. I was even shoved onto a train by the famous men in white gloves. Never had a door problem. Metro doors might as well be folded paper origami doors, for all the trouble they have.

That being said, I WILL go off on the morons at National Airport who block the doors with their luggage, then let the whole family scramble over that suitcase before hauling in 3 more suitcases over the one blocking the door. I will also go off on the people who use their hands to muscle the doors open Superman-style to pry the doors open so they can squeeze in. Feel the wrath of DCDen!

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@NoPants_McGee · 683 weeks ago

I have been on trains where customers repeatedly held doors open or tried to fight their way on repeatedly, leading to the train being taken out of service.

I have also been on trains where one door, for whatever reason, just didn't close all the way. The customers gave it a nudge, and we were on our way! No rhyme or reason for why, as far as I can tell.

+3 Vote up Vote down

stupidraidersfan 80p · 683 weeks ago

There is an AM redline operator that often does this. In a condescending voice as if he's talking to schoolchildren-

"This train will offload if you don't leave the doors alone"

+6 Vote up Vote down

Amy · 683 weeks ago

I'd like to know if there are *any* car series in the metro system that aren't plagued with problems, and just how many cars are actually available for use. Let's review (my memory is hazy, so please correct or update):

--the 1000 series cars can't be placed on the ends of trains because they crumple too much in an accident
--the 2000 series cars have door problems
--the 4000 series cars have had door problems
--one series (was it the 5000?) had brake issues a few months ago
--either the 3000 or 5000 series is or was prone to running away and can't be used as lead cars

6 replies · active 683 weeks ago

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Guest · 683 weeks ago

The 5000's also have bad air conditioning.

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Matt G · 683 weeks ago

the WORST. "Operation Cool Breeze" never stood a chance.

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unsuckdcmetro 92p · 683 weeks ago

The 1000s would crumple no matter where they were in the train. Physics.

I think the 6000s are the only ones without issues I'm aware of.

But on top of all that, it's absolutely foolish for metro to have bought all these different kinds of cars. The Rohrs, for example, have a completely different door mechanism from the others.

Think of the potential inventory and skillset SNAFUs, both of which bleed Metro of even more money.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Matt G · 683 weeks ago

I'm actually a big fan of the 6000 cars. Before they played the mix n' match game, consists made up entirely of 6000s were always on the Green Line. As I ride it from L'Enfant to "Brunch Avenue" and back every day via the Orange line, I rode on 6000s almost exclusively -- not once -- did I ever have a door problem, or any other problem for that matter. Those cars are built solid.

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Kara · 683 weeks ago

Yes, I was going to add just the same thing about the 1000s. It does not exactly take advanced quantum mechanics to realize it. It is practically a matter of common sense.

Metro must have a REALLY low perception of our intelligence if they thought they would be fooled by that one.

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@VeggieTart · 683 weeks ago

I thought the 1000 series were placed in the middle because of braking issues. Wasn't it faulty brakes that led to the 2009 Red Line crash? So they "sandwich" the cars, causing another set of problems when people in the cars behind the 1000 cars can't communicate with the operator.

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John · 683 weeks ago

When the trains are offloaded for a door malfunction, isn't it true they put the train in service at the next station? If so, does it make sense to just pretend you are asleep?

1 reply · active 683 weeks ago

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Guest · 683 weeks ago

IF CAR EQUIPMENT CLOSES THE DOOR THEN THEY PUT IT BANK IN SERVICE.

+3 Vote up Vote down

@davinpet · 683 weeks ago

Good thing Metro only has 76 2000 series cars. They were originally built from 1981-83 and rehabilitation by Astrom from 2002-4. Metro has 290 3000 series which are very similar to the 2000 series cars. Even though Metro has problems with a series of cars, they continue to refuse to retire them from service. They have too may old cars in service and not enough new cars in service. It's too bad they couldn't more of the 6000 series when they purchased them.

1 reply · active 683 weeks ago

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guest · 683 weeks ago

Yeah and the 7000 Series train cars tax payers purchased cannot couple to the other Series of train cars.
What a headache this will be when a train goes down and needs to be recovered.

+4 Vote up Vote down

Char · 683 weeks ago

One time as a Metro train pulled in, I saw two teens on the inside of the car, oddly pushing the doors - each of them on each side of the doors - as if to try and keep the doors from opening when the train came to a stop. They were smiling and laughing at this attempt. Their efforts succeeded in holding one side of the doors closed, and they jumped out the one side of the open door, laughing as they took off. I went to board at another door when I saw what they were up to. I wondered if the train operator would be able to get the doors to close so we could continue on our way. Thankfully he was able to. Very funny teenie boppers! Leave the doors alone. Metro has enough trouble without you trying to pull your pranks.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 683 weeks ago

How do you ID the series of the train car you're on? I've seen the serial numbers, and I assume the info is embedded in there somewhere.

2 replies · active 683 weeks ago

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@ChrisHowdy · 683 weeks ago

There are numbers on the outside of each car (front and rear of both sides, near the top of the train) and on the inside of the cars (on the emergency doors at either end). They're all of the format 1xxx, 2xxx, etc.

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bob · 683 weeks ago

The inside of the doors at the front and back ends of the car usually have a 4-digit number on them. Its on the outside of the trains as well.

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Jennifer · 683 weeks ago

One night at Metro Center our driver actually told us that if we blocked the door we'd get a citation from transit police. My first thought was how would they know which person to blame? Or would they just ticket the entire car? Hey that's a way for Metro to make money...

I called them on it on Twitter and they did respond saying it wasn't true. But seriously? That was one of the craziest things I've ever heard from Metro.

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anon · 683 weeks ago

What gets me is that with unemployment still pretty high, you'd think people would mind their Ps and Qs when it comes to doing their job. But not Metro, where every day is Opposite Day and their union ensures they're employed for life.