Unsuck DC Metro: Fleecing or 'Fraud Prevention?'

JRo · 659 weeks ago

Hmm.. would anyone launder money through a metro machine? Seems like the amounts would be too small.

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Anony · 659 weeks ago

I'm just curious -- How does it prevent fraud? Bogus cards? Sounds like a Metro problem. Maybe they think it would encourage stealing of the cards, but they don't give you cash. They just give you another "good" card. And the most likely fraud to occur would be the person behind the counter at the sales office.

This happens to tourists all the time. They use paper cards, put them in their wallets/pockets and they become demagnetized. Then they're SOL unless they go to Metro sales office, which they don't know of. So they eat it.

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@FixWMATA · 659 weeks ago

How do we prevent Metro from committing fraud on us? "Note: To prevent fraud Metro is allowed only 1 fare increase every 3 years."

2 replies · active 659 weeks ago

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anon · 659 weeks ago

I've prevented Metro from committing fraud on me by not taking Metro any more. Through a combination of carpooling, telework and cycling, I just hardly ever ride.

I've saved up about 1200 bucks, and plan to take a nice vacation.

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Jin · 659 weeks ago

Go some place with decent public transit. When you get back, show the pics and share the stories! That way, we can experience it through you!

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Matthew · 659 weeks ago

For clarification - was the writer trying to get a cash refund? or trying to exchange these for functional cards?

1 reply · active 659 weeks ago

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Liz · 659 weeks ago

It is the same thing that happened to me I think - just wanted a working card (no cash) and they could only do one at a time. It's a scam on metro's part.

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@perkinsms · 659 weeks ago

There's a guy with a stack of demagnetized farecards a few inches tall. He brings them to every meeting trying to turn them in. I bet that has something to do with it.

4 replies · active 659 weeks ago

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@FixWMATA · 659 weeks ago

How much do you think all that is worth? MAYBE a couple hundred dollars? Scan his ID like CVS does when you buy Mucinex, give him his money, and make him go away. It's not rocket science.

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Mark · 659 weeks ago

So like a homeless guy who's collected farecards like some collect empty cans/bottles for the refunds?

Not Metro's money to hold onto. The guy was enterprising and deserves to be paid.

@perkinsms · 659 weeks ago

I think this is him: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/42762...

Guest · 659 weeks ago

The guy is a few inches tall?

Vienna Bound · 659 weeks ago

I'm confused by Metro's response in The Examiner's story. Metro can't verify the door openings except through rider eyewitnesses? I know conductors get a signal when they are trying to close doors at the platform and one doesn't close. Is there a similar alert for a random door opening? Is there a black box that documents door closings? Is an eyewitness picture, which I'm sure is time stamped on a smart phone, not sufficient evident of a 'possible' door opening?

As for the farecard problem, it's a big ol' PITA. I've had numerous cards demagnatize. Fortunately, I work close to Metro Center so I can trade in a bad card in the morning and one in the evening if necessary. There's no record of me turning one in. I don't see why a passenger can't visit one of the booths before entering the station and then again once they've entered the station.

3 replies · active 659 weeks ago

Kara · 659 weeks ago

Oh, maybe they do not GO to metro center as part of their normal commute? Not everyone works near there.

I thought you needed to be inside the system to get to the sales office. Do they have windows on the other side of the gates as well?

@perkinsms · 659 weeks ago

They have a window on the outside of the JGB, I think it's 500 F street NW

RGG · 659 weeks ago

Yes. Windows on both sides at Metro Center. Windows outside at Anacostia & Pentagon.

Red Line · 659 weeks ago

The policy MIGHT make sense/be reasonable IF you could easily exchange farecards at each station, and they weren't apt to failure. I use a Smarttrip card and I still have several failed farecards in my collection (visitors, etc).

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MLD · 659 weeks ago

I believe you can go to any station manager (or at least one who cares) with a defective farecard and they will fill out an envelope with their information, then you can fill it out with your address, etc. and mail the cards in and they will send you a check. In like 6 months.

Not amazing but could be more convenient for you than going to Metro Center.
See here (http://www.wmata.com/fares/purchase/refunds.cfm) under "Exchanges" - you want the "fare adjustment envelope."

5 replies · active 659 weeks ago

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Kara · 659 weeks ago

That is not at all what I would consider convenient.

Frequent red liner · 659 weeks ago

Metro's policies are in place to prevent their own staff from committing fraud, as they know first hand that metro pays little to no attention to tracking their money. I had to fill out a fare adjustment slip at a station, after a farecard machine processed my debit card payment and malfunctioned, and after having to pull up my bank account on my iPhone. Luckily for me, my bank reversed the charge on its own. I called smartrip to cancel the refund, and they hadn't received it. A week later, still hadn't received it. The station manager said it would take 7-10 days. Sometime next year, I may get a check for that money. Thank goodness I got it back without them.

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Vienna Bound · 659 weeks ago

I've done the envelope return when I've had several cards that were demagnatized. If it's over a certain dollar amount (I don't know what it is) it takes months because supervisors have to sign off on it. I get farecards through my employer to add to my Smartrip card. On occasion, several cards have failed to work and I sent in a big batch rather than visit Metro Center every day.

Liz · 659 weeks ago

Do you have to have a Station Manager sign off on it or can you just send the envelope in?

RGG · 659 weeks ago

You can mail the envelope in, but the postage is on you. Or, you can give the envelope to the station manager and he/she can send it in through internal channels for you with no postage required. Either way, don't forget to tear the strip off on the top of the envelope--it's your receipt.

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Gues · 659 weeks ago

I have to think this is absolutely about capturing revenue considering how prone the cards are to demagnetization. I occasionally have to use a paper card for one reason or another, and these things literally become demagnetized after a single trip, even when you just hold it in your hand and away from your phone, wallet, etc. I might further add that not only do I think that the "one exchange per day" rule is about stealing passengers' revenue, but I also have to believe the cards are intentionally designed to fail for the same reason. .

1 reply · active 659 weeks ago

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Daily Rider · 659 weeks ago

Gotta say, I used paper fare cards form 1979 to 2005, and never had one demagnetize, or fail in any other way. Maybe that is where all my luck went.

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Bitter Brew · 659 weeks ago

Actually, I find Metro's explanation totally plausible -- as long as you think about it as preventing *employee* fraud rather than *passenger* fraud.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's based on actual experience with an employee coming up with a way to generate paper farecards with leftover value, then "turn them in" for cash.

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russell.j.coller.jr · 659 weeks ago

Only people with ridiculous thumb rings are routinely messed with... should be used to it by now, for Pete's sake. The Death Star gets a pass on this one.

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@VeggieTart · 659 weeks ago

Prevent fraud, my patootie. I can understand not wanting to exchange a stack of cards totaling hundreds of dollars, but three cards totally $17 is a rather small amount. If Metro has to set some silly arbitrary limit, how about limiting the *dollar* amount that can be exchanged by one person on a given day rather than the number of cards? And if one person has a demagnetized card with a large amount, exchange for another card or for adding to the SmarTrip.

Oops, am I making sense again?

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asdf · 659 weeks ago

Again, Metro's policies are tailor made for METRO, not riders.

Gah!

1 reply · active 659 weeks ago

@VeggieTart · 659 weeks ago

Right, right, I keep forgetting that. Sorry.

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Jin · 659 weeks ago

"But Metro has said it could not verify the next two cases despite riders' eyewitness accounts."

Just...what?

"Now, after The Washington Examiner started asking questions about this latest case and Metro reviewed it, the agency said it believes the doors may have opened inappropriately."

After reading that last line, all I could think was, "How deliciously inappropriate! Those naughty, naughty doors!" in Hedonismbot's voice.

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Tone · 659 weeks ago

If this makes sense for metro it makes sense for all businesses - anyone expecting the Gap to allow only one returned item per day?

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Kathryn · 659 weeks ago

A fast and easy way to get your money back is to get someone who has a smartrip card to buy the paper cards from you. They can put them on their card at any Metro machine.

1 reply · active 659 weeks ago

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Kara · 659 weeks ago

Ah, so sell them a card that does not work? You must be a joy to encounter.

Sam · 659 weeks ago

How does this actually PREVENT fraud? At most, it postpones fraud to the next day. If I was trying to defraud Metro using bogus farecards, this policy would just cause me to have to wait a day between cards... that doesn't prevent anything. It might inconvenience fraudsters... but it certainly doesn't prevent it from occurring. That's just ridiculous.

Elizabeth · 659 weeks ago

I tried getting a $50 fare card (it was a gift) to go on my smartrip- it didn't work, asked the station manager, he said I had to go to Metro center to put it on my card...since the amount was too high...I then just decided to USE the farecard and it didn't accept it in the turnstiles...because the amount on it was too high...I finally went to Metro Center to figure it out, and they said they couldn't break it into 2 $20 fare cards and a $10 card since they can only give 1 card back a day...WHAT! I was so exasperated and frustrated and started saying it wasn't like I was exchanging cash...and I didn't trust them to give me the rest of it on other days...finally the lady said she would break the rule, just this once...incredible (though I did thank her for her "Help") Metro is definitely fleecing....

Guest · 659 weeks ago

Not until any issue hits the newspaper does Metro address the issue. These ongoing issues are proof enough there needs to be a take over.

The dysfunction rail board is part of the ongoing issue. Did you know metro appointed a superintendent with a prior drug problem and cannot see to head up the Dulles rail by the man in charge of operations. This man was overseeing the rail when the crash occurred and was promoted after the crash and appointed this former druggie to be the Dulles rail point man. Just Really?

1 reply · active 659 weeks ago

Anony · 659 weeks ago

The opponents in Loudoun had a lot of ammo to use in the form of WMATA being incompetent. Instead, they chose to focus on other talking points.

In my opinion, it would have been more convincing of them to say --- we support rail to Loudoun, but not run by WMATA.