Unsuck DC Metro: Nats/Metro Stories don't Add Up

Wednesday, August 22, 2012

Nats/Metro Stories don't Add Up

Yes, the Nats should fork over what basically amounts to pocket change to keep the Metro open for their fans, but Metro is not exactly playing ball with their customers either, according to Eric:

I don't know why they're not telling the truth, but just wanted to tell you that the Nats and/or Metro is not telling the truth about the times of the last train leaving Navy Yard.

Two pieces of evidence: The Metro website says the last train leaves Navy Yard for Greenbelt at 11:39 but has "no Red Line transfer."

But that's impossible, since the last train leaves Gallery Place, the Red Line transfer station, for Shady Grove at 12:02 and Glenmont at 12:08.

The ride from Navy Yard to Gallery Place is eight minutes.

The math doesn't add up.

There definitely is another train that leaves after the 11:20 train that they are telling fans to take, and it should transfer to the Red Line.

Even more evidence that there's something going on: If you look at all the Green Line stations after Navy Yard (toward Branch Avenue), they all say that the last train to Greenbelt leaves later, 11:24 from Branch Avenue, 11:37 from Congress Heights, etc. And unlike when the last train is listed for Navy Yard and Waterfront, it doesn't say that there is "no Red Line transfer."

Odd, isn't it, that there's no warning about not being to transfer to the Red Line from the Green Line on the last train if you get on farther up the line, but if you get on at the Ballpark, all of a sudden you can't transfer (or Metro is just really screwing with their customers.)

Of course you can transfer--it just seems that Metro doesn't want to possibly not be able to fit everyone on the last train, or they're lazy, or something--but they're not telling the truth.

Personally, I feel that this is on the Lerners--Leonis, Snyder and various organizations in town being willing to pay if they want to keep the train open.

Only the Nats owners are apparently too cheap--or just don't care enough about the fans--to keep the Metro open on the rare night that something like this happens.

But I still am puzzled by why Metro/the Nats are telling people to leave 20 minutes earlier than they really have to.

Comments (53)

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+8 Vote up Vote down

jdb820 0p · 656 weeks ago

I think the "No Red Line Transfer" line is centered more on Fort Totten than Gallery Place. I know Columbia Heights and Georgia Ave have the same note.

-11 Vote up Vote down

@Mike0376 · 656 weeks ago

Did you think of the possibility it takes time for people to walk from the stadium to the Navy Yard stop? What if you had kids? Kids can't walk as fast and you need to keep an eye on them.____I don't blame Metro one bit for Monday night. ____When the playoffs hit, that is when the Nationals will please everyone. The only unknown is the times of the games (bear in mind, some could be 1 PM starts during the week), the dates are already set in stone.

2 replies · active 656 weeks ago

+16 Vote up Vote down

guest · 656 weeks ago

Why are you out with little kids that late?

Metro and the Nats should advertise ALL options. If you're gonna be slow, take the 11:20, if not, catch a few more minutes of the game and take the 11:39. They both will get you where you need to go.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Kara · 656 weeks ago

The question is when the train leaves. It is not about how long it will take you to get to that train.

Say it takes me 10 minutes to walk to a train. One day I stop in the middle of the walk for half an hour. Should I still expect to catch the same train?

+2 Vote up Vote down

anon · 656 weeks ago

Thank you for bringing this to light.

There's no reason to rush people out of the game for that second to last train. Plenty of time to transfer.

Yes. BOO Nats.

+4 Vote up Vote down

Theo16 · 656 weeks ago

People shouldn't be leaving before the end of the game anyway, especially in extra innings.

But the reason the Lerners don't care is that concession stands are long closed by then anyway, so they have stopped generating revenue by that time.

+6 Vote up Vote down

@wmata · 656 weeks ago

That's not accurate.

4 replies · active 656 weeks ago

+5 Vote up Vote down

jimlcunningham 80p · 656 weeks ago

Don't you love it how @wmata never elaborates? They could at least give us 140 characters.

+5 Vote up Vote down

DC Denizen · 656 weeks ago

JJ, you know @wmata is a spoof, right? That's all @wmata ever says... sort of a running gag.

0 Vote up Vote down

Andrew. · 656 weeks ago

Hilarious.

+3 Vote up Vote down

jimlcunningham 80p · 656 weeks ago

I didn't. Thanks. Save me some embarrassment in the future.

0 Vote up Vote down

@VeggieTart · 656 weeks ago

The reason the Caps/Wizards may be willing to authorize Metro overtime and the Nationals are not is very simple. On any given day, a baseball game could go into extra innings, be rain delayed, whatever, necessitating Metro staying open for a game that goes past midnight. There are 81 chances of this happening in the regular season alone.

During the regular season for hockey, overtime is five minutes, and if it comes to that, the shootout is typically brief as well. Hockey games rarely go past 10:00 or 10:30, depending on start time. The only time a hockey game might go past midnight is during the playoffs, when the overtime format changes to 20-minute periods until someone scores. That happened once this year. It didn't happen at all last year or the year before.

Being willing to keep Metro open past midnight once every few years is a lot easier than being willing to keep Metro open multiple times in a year.

3 replies · active 656 weeks ago

+4 Vote up Vote down

Eric · 656 weeks ago

Yes, there are 81 chances of this happening. How many times did it happen so far this year? Once, twice? It's still rare--and even if it happens five times in a season, that means about $150K a year--before you subtract the revenue from the riders. That's not much money for a team that generates hundreds of millions in revenue.

+4 Vote up Vote down

@jakesauser · 656 weeks ago

there aren't 81 chances, you're forgetting weekends and day games. most sunday games are day games, as are many thursday games, so you're really only looking at monday, tuesday, and wednesday games. i'd put the number closer to 30 if i had to guess. 30 x 30k is less than a million. given what we paid jayson werth, i think lerner can afford it...

0 Vote up Vote down

@VeggieTart · 656 weeks ago

Fair enough I did forget about the day games. However, it's still far more likely that a baseball game is going to necessitate after-midnight service than a hockey or basketball game will.

+19 Vote up Vote down

@FixWMATA · 656 weeks ago

Whatever the politicial and financial situation is between the Nats and WMATA you CAN place blame on WMATA for not communicating with their customers. There were ZERO tweets, Facebook, or WMATA website updates telling fans what their options were - yet when WTOP called Dan Stessel at 11:30 PM they got all kinds of answers.

WMATA doesn't treat their paying riders with the respect they give members of the media. Do we all need Dan Stessel's cell phone number to get answers? I have it... I can tweet it if that's what it takes...

2 replies · active 656 weeks ago

+12 Vote up Vote down

FreeMarketFan · 656 weeks ago

I'd like it - I have a few questions about hot cars from this summer

+2 Vote up Vote down

DC Denizen · 656 weeks ago

Wow. That would be an interesting day if that got out! My guess though is that he'd shut it off in 3 minutes or less and change his number...

+3 Vote up Vote down

joe · 656 weeks ago

I wasn't at this game. How were fans notified that the Metro would be closing? I didn't see anything on twitter or get any Metro alerts about it.

Can someone who was there please tell me.
Thanks

1 reply · active 656 weeks ago

+9 Vote up Vote down

Orange Crush · 656 weeks ago

I WAS at the game. They announced it and it was on the scoreboard. Anybody paying attention got the word. I did NOT get a metro alert, however.

+11 Vote up Vote down

FreeMarketFan · 656 weeks ago

The Nationals are just being cheap in this regard.

You have 81 home games. Remove the afternoon games (1:05, 4:05) from the equation. Then remove get-away day games that occur during the week once in a blue moon. Now you're left with a smaller sample set of 7:05 games that occurred during a weeknight and ran past the typical 3 hour time-span of a game (due to things like nature or extra innings)

This should happen maybe 3-4 times over the course of the season. Have an agreement with METRO that once it hits XX:XX PM that you extend service for 1 hour. If the game is still going on at XX:XX + 1 Hour extend it another one

+6 Vote up Vote down

jkuchen · 656 weeks ago

This is certainly going to be more of an issue with the playoffs. The start times are all TBDs on the schedules, but looking at the start times from last year, I wouldn't be surprised with 8:37pm start times from TBS since games in Detroit and Philly were scheduled to start that late. You wouldn't be able to stay for a 3-hour game and make it to the Navy Yard in time.

1 reply · active 655 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

dddddda · 655 weeks ago

I think the 8:30 games are here to stay for us East-Coasters. They're trying to grab a national audience, and don't want the games to start during the work day on the West Coast. Le sigh, I hate the games starting later even when I'm all tucked in on the couch to watch. I'd rally for a boycott if they refuse to pay for additional Metro operations in the post-season. Having a half-empty post-season game televised would look really, really bad.

+6 Vote up Vote down

One take · 656 weeks ago

You would think that WMATA would make some exceptions for making travel to Washington Olympic Stadium more convenient since the Montreal Nationals are actually winning this year, eh?

Allez Expos!

+15 Vote up Vote down

@make_lemons · 656 weeks ago

Someone else on Twitter said it best yesterday (can't remember who)....

The Nats got a "free" stadium built for them by DC, situated near a Metro station on purpose.

Now the Nats need to pony up.. and not just in the post season....

+1 Vote up Vote down

BPMBA · 656 weeks ago

The Sports Bog on WaPo covers this issue well, here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog...

0 Vote up Vote down

guzzler · 656 weeks ago

Why are you people even taking Metro to the games? Take a piece of advice. DRIVE! You'll thank me later.

3 replies · active 655 weeks ago

+2 Vote up Vote down

Simpson H · 656 weeks ago

I don't like paying $20-$30 for the privilege of sitting in traffic for an hour after the game.

-1 Vote up Vote down

@Pacen8r · 656 weeks ago

You don't need to do that; there are cheap parking places that are well signed and monitored a couple blocks east of the ballpark for $15. I've never sat in traffic after a game for more than 5 minutes. Driving is truly the only logical option for this Nats fan.

0 Vote up Vote down

dddddda · 655 weeks ago

Did you consider that if all 40,999 other fans took your advice, you'd be sitting in traffic a *wee* bit longer than 5 minutes, and that those $15 parking spots would be sold out?

+3 Vote up Vote down

Bitter Brew · 656 weeks ago

"The math doesn't add up."

Are you serious? For once, WMATA is being straight with riders, and everyone is complaining?

Everyone should realize that Metro's rail system isn't timely and reliable enough for Nats fans to plan to get 4 stops in 23 minutes (11:39 to 12:02), especially with the likelihood of broken escalators and elevators at Gallery Place, the possibility the station manager will decide to close the station and turn out the lights early, and the occasional (who am I kidding -- frequent!) failure of that last Red Line train to appear *at all.*

So kudos to Stan Dessel and his WMATA team on this one for being upfront and honest: Metro simply cannot be relied upon to get hundreds of Nats fans home if they leave Nationals Park after 11:00.

4 replies · active 656 weeks ago

+3 Vote up Vote down

Rory · 656 weeks ago

It seems to me that when I was working very late years ago that the last run of the night would wait at the major stations (though I only used Metro Center) for each other, and wouldn't actually depart to the end of the line until all the trains were there and passengers had a chance to transfer. I take it that's a thing of the past?

+4 Vote up Vote down

Bitter Brew · 656 weeks ago

Yes, that's a good description of how it usually work. But like most things on Metro, "usually" still means frequent screwups, with major consequences. I think one reason Metro wants everyone on the next-to-last connection to the Red Line, for example, is to avoid having a huge gaggle of Nats fans stranded at Gallery Place on the occasions when that train (the "next-to-last") turns out to be last because the later-scheduled train never runs. This has happened at least twice this summer that I am aware of.

+3 Vote up Vote down

SammyDC · 656 weeks ago

Bitter -- Would you mean "kudos to Dan Stessel"? Dan Stessel is the WMATA spokesperson. "Stan Dessel" is an unsuck meme. Or were you being ironic?

+3 Vote up Vote down

Bitter Brew · 656 weeks ago

Oops - heh. The two of them are so indistinguishable, I mixed 'em up!

+3 Vote up Vote down

Ever n Anon · 656 weeks ago

People, why are you surprised? DId you forget that Metro cannot count higher than their fingers and toes. Obviously they have not yet learned how to tell time. Dat's next year when dey's all big boys and girls! ;-D

+1 Vote up Vote down

russell.j.coller.jr · 656 weeks ago

MATH !! That's racist.

+3 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 656 weeks ago

A few years ago Metro stayed open for a late Nats game an under 100 people rode the trains. Everyone agreed it was a total waste of money and the Nats could have paid for a limo for everyone for less.

That being said, its a new era. People not from Philadelphia actually go to Nats games now. Thus, the Nats really should put an agreement on the books with Metro to keep the trains running. I bet the total cost for a seson would be under $200,000, which is a few rain-delay innings worth of concessions.

Also, if you can, just drive. Parking around the stadium, even for the busiest games is actually quite plentiful. The lots never fill up, and street spaces can be had for a short walk. Plus traffic getting in and out is never an issue.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Thomas Troxell · 656 weeks ago

I'm understanding both sides of the argument here, but I live in Metro Atlanta. MARTA, our transit system, will continue to operate trains and an extremely limited bus schedule when the Braves go into extra innings. It doesn't happen too often, but MARTA understands that the people at Turner Field rely on them to get them home safely. Their website says that the "Braves Shuttle from Five Points runs 90 minutes before the game starts and every fifteen minutes throughout the game. After the seventh innings, Braves Shuttle buses will not return to Steve Polk Plaza/Old World of Coca-Cola but instead to the Forsyth Street Entrance of the Five Points Transit Station. The buses will continue to run until 1 hour after the last out, regardless of what time that is. The rail system will remain open (even if it is after 1:15am) with trains operating every 15-20 minutes depending on the line until 90 minutes after the end of the game, or 25 minutes after the last Braves Shuttle arrives at Five Points, whichever comes first." Why Metro cannot provide the same service is beyond me. I know that MARTA is funded by a one-cent sales tax, and they realize that the Braves Games are one of their few profitable days. Metro should feel the same way...without the Nats games, they would have less revenue. They should at least keep trains running for an hour after the end of the game. It is beyond me why they wouldn't do that. :/

2 replies · active 656 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

LMNtary,DearThomas · 656 weeks ago

Lynchpin: "... MARTA understands..."
WMATA does not.

0 Vote up Vote down

Eric · 656 weeks ago

Yeah, but Atlanta has, what two actual subway lines and about 25 stations? Metro has five lines and close to 100 stations. Much different scale.

+1 Vote up Vote down

AnonE · 656 weeks ago

Yup, at 12:30 everyone leaves Metro. Lock the doors and turn the lights off, nothing else to do.
Ignorant people. Bliss?

+2 Vote up Vote down

DC Denizen · 656 weeks ago

Unsuck, clever inversion of the Nats logo to make an M... I think I looked at that a few times before it sunk in. :)

+5 Vote up Vote down

NatsFan2005 · 656 weeks ago

As I was leaving the game last Monday night at 11:16 pm to catch that 11:20 pm train (which I knew about because I saw the announcement on the scoreboard) I was questioned by two different employees at the stadium wanting to know why I was leaving with the game tied and extra innings coming up. I was pissed - I did not want to leave. I would have stayed till the end - it was a great game - and here these people were giving me a hard time. Neither of them offered to pay my cab fare if I stayed however. Fans want to stay to the end of extra inning games. We will stay - if we know we have a way home. We have an amazing team, great manager, awesome players. Not paying the fee to keep metro open for us is the only fault I can see with the team this year. Please, Nats ownership, pay the fee. Let us stay till the end of the game rather than streaming for the exits during a tight game and then trying to follow the score on our smartphones in the train with no cell signal.

0 Vote up Vote down

@Hell_on_wheelz · 656 weeks ago

Enter text right here!

+1 Vote up Vote down

jon pelfry · 655 weeks ago

I agree that the Nats situation is a problem, but Largo and the Redskins game is a BIG problem too. I came home from work today and got to Largo at about 4:15, like I do everyday. I had to pay $25 on my smart trip card to exit because there is a game tonight.

I understand the event parking fee, but at 4:00????? Me and every other car at the station had to pay $25 to get out and none of us were going to a game that starts tonight at 7 or 8pm. That's some bullsh$%t.