Tuesday, May 21, 2013

Just How Safe are the Trains?

From Steve:
I experienced something alarming on my Metro train the morning of May 9 that I'd like to report.

I was traveling on the Red Line between Union Station and Silver Spring. Silver Spring was the final stop of this train, as it was reversing and going back into the District. I was in car number 4088, and it was the train the arrived at Silver Spring at 8:38 a.m.

Around Ft. Totten, a Metro employee who appeared to be some sort of an inspector entered the rear of my car from the last car and contacted the train operator on his radio.
He told the operator the last car had brake problems and that he needed to keep his braking "below B3." Further down the line, as we approached Silver Spring, the inspector contacted the operator again and told him, "Come on, man, I need you to hold that braking to below B3. I want to try to get this train back over the line."
The operator apologized and said something about "overspeeding." The inspector said, "Then keep your speed 5 miles below the limit to keep from overspeeding." The operator responds that "it just changed by itself."

The fact that the train was having some sort of braking problems that warranted the operator to drive below the listed speed, and that when talking about the train's speed the operator said "it just changed by itself," and that despite all this the train continued to carry passengers, are alarming to say the least.

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Comments (36)

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Stevey Bones's avatar

Stevey Bones · 618 weeks ago

Almost as bad as when I had a similar experience around Judiciary Square with a train headed to Glenmont. Mechanic got on the last car of an 8 car train at Gallery and spoke to the operator over the intercom. Operator said "I was losing the brakes coming down the hill at woodley."

The mechanic didn't seem to fear for his life, so I stayed on and made it home alive.
Stan Dessel's avatar

Stan Dessel · 618 weeks ago

You lived to write this post.

You're welcome!
Stevey Grammer's avatar

Stevey Grammer · 618 weeks ago

Pro tip:

Brake = car brake

Break = take a break, break me off a piece of that kit-kat bar
And the train conductor said, "Driver 8, take a brake..." Or something like that.
Grammar?

"These are the breaks, break it up, break it up, break it uuup!"
~Kurtis Blow
Grammar, not Grammer.
You always hear morbid jokes like "they're never going to put a traffic light up at that intersection until someone dies there." Well, we had the Red Line crash and Metro didn't even blink with regards to getting its act together. It's absolutely shocking.
Dave Alturd's avatar

Dave Alturd · 618 weeks ago

Safer than cars guys. Anything involving a car is evil. Metro is great for cities. The rate of death is way lower on Metro than cars. Based on this one fact we can safely say this anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Metro is getting people OFF the read people. Gosh you guys just don't get it yet do you. Are you all white conservative men who vote Republican and watch Fox news? Maybe you cyclophobes and mass transitphobes should ease it up on the metro.

Good lord, you guys probably want segregation back too. Get it in your heads: cars = evil; mass transit = good. A few deaths are more than worth getting rid of all cars (except mine)

Read my blog!: www.donotforgetthatIstillownacar.com
2 replies · active 617 weeks ago
The bigger issue with Metro is the lack of reliability, which drives people away from Metro and back into their cars, where they are much more likely to be injured or killed in a crash, as you said. The biggest way Metro can improve the safety of the passengers is to make the service more reliable and get people out of their cars and riding Metro.
Wow! Lots of stupid stuff in your comment like getting cars off the "reads" ... Roads? Anyway, the segregation and transit analogy? To respond to your rant, subway systems are good. They are even better when they are run well and don't cause their ridership to take clonopin before, during, and after each ride.
Thta's what she said!
Never change Metro, never change.

Twenty years ago I had a harrowing experience on a Metrobus barreling along Michigan Ave. To be fair, the driver did warn us when we got on at the Brookland Station that "I pretty much have no brakes, now I can baby it and get you where you need to go, but its gonna be a tough ride."
"I'm going to try to explain based on what I know about commercial
braking systems and about Metro's brakes.

"Train brakes work by springs that hold the brake pads against the
discs. Air pressure is used to push the brake pads away from the
discs, allowing the train to move. A failure of the air pressure
system will allow the springs to lock up the brakes, stopping the
train. Additionally, a failure of the brake control system will
prevent the operator from being able to release the brakes and get the
train moving again. This typically results in offloading a train, from
what I understand.

"Metro brakes can be applied at different levels from B1 to B5, with
an emergency braking level above B4. In this case the mechanic was
concerned about applying brakes above B3. I don't know why. I think
based on the number of trains that are offloaded due to brake problems
he was probably concerned that he would not be able to get the brakes
to open again, hence his comment about getting the train "back over
the line".

"Metro's control systems have a maximum allowed speed and then a
control speed which is set by a computer system that is up to the
maximum allowed. In automatic action, the train drives itself up to
the control speed. In manual, the operator drives the train to the
control speed. Sometimes problems with the track circuits can cause a
loss of signal that suddenly changes the control speed. If that
happens, the train will be traveling faster than the control speed and
the brakes are applied automatically. I've had this happen several
times while the mic was hot coming out of the Rosslyn station. The
signal sounds like three short beeps and the train abruptly brakes.

"I know there's a lot of understandable skepticism out there regarding
Metro. Based on my understanding it looks like the workers concern was
about being able to keep the train in service rather than a doubt
about whether there might be a risk of collision due to brake failure.

"This is all quite speculative, though."
7 replies · active 617 weeks ago
Stevey Orange Line's avatar

Stevey Orange Line · 618 weeks ago

I used to hear this triple beep a LOT on the orange line near rosslyn, and the whole way out to west falls or vienna. Always accompanied by that horrible stop and go jerking travel.
Stevey, I think I know what you're talking about, used to hear that alot when I lived on the Orange Line. And man was it bumpy! I used to get upset at people if I were standing, and they were sitting, and they'd try to force me to move for them, when we'd hit the bumps and start jerking around. I told them I wouldn't move til the train stopped, too dangerous. I've already fallen once and broken a hip during a commute, never again.
me too. i let go too soon a couple weeks ago (i know, what was i thinking?) and just about landed in someone's lap.

so sorry about your hip. :(
You seem to be the smartest person on here.
brokenBreaksBrakeBro's avatar

brokenBreaksBrakeBro · 617 weeks ago

Is there a possibility of overheating and loss of braking power (as on a runaway semi-trailer?)

This would also constitute loss of brakes, and, I assume, with only one car out the train could stop (assuming this, it's possible that this was the case—and I assume after maintaining a slower speed the brakes would cool).

I don't know if this is possible or plausible, just wondering if it is.

I wonder if overheating would explain the catastrophic brake failure.
brokenBrakeBrain's avatar

brokenBrakeBrain · 617 weeks ago

Never mind, this is addressed below.
it's like we are all on the WILD RIDE at the Beach!!!! these operators have no idea that they are braking HARD and throwing passengers forward. If there were a better way to get around DC, I'd be ON THAT instead.
1 reply · active 618 weeks ago
And I trust the average carnie more than I trust most WMATA workers.
The issue mentioned above has to do with dynamic braking, the electrical equivalent to down-shifting, on a normal train most of the braking is done dynamically with friction brakes only applying below 10 MPH. If the dynamic brake system on a car fails friction brakes take over, the mechanic was trying to get the operator to go easy on the brakes to keep them from getting hot and you know how that smells. Remember, each car has two independent braking systems.
2 replies · active 618 weeks ago
This is correct. This is also why running in manual is useless. The train operator does exactly what the control system tells him to do. Instead of the computer doing it for you. The change in operation and safety is zero. And it would not have changed the 2009 crash.
this is correct. it is a non-issue. rail cars use dynamic braking. like it was described in a post above it is the equivalent of down shifting. when the car has a fault in its dynamic brake circuit it uses friction braking. same as when you are driving down a mountain road. you would want to down shift to stay off the brakes and those that don't get the hot stinking brakes at the bottom. by telling the operator to use B3 braking is a way to tell him to be smoother in transitioning from power to brake. nothing unusual here.
Dave Alturd's avatar

Dave Alturd · 618 weeks ago

Think about the pollution prevented! Think about the fewer evil Nazi cars on the road! Think of the excercise you get going to Metro! Its good for everyone! So a few people may die...so what? I think it's clear that mass transit is always worth a few deaths anyway. Things that arent worth dying for arent really important anyway.

Just remember kids, its astonishing that we let all these stupid people drive those steel boxes of death every day. I can't wait for the future when all those crazy death traps are no longer with us. How insane that we ever as a society let people choose where they wanted to go for themselves. No, society should be told how to live by people smarter than them (like me).

Mass transit is worth the human cost in making that dream a reality.

Read my blog!: www.donotforgetthatIstillownacar.com
Has anyone ever had the experience of the train making an uncommanded movement when the operator was not in the cab? I was on an Orange Line train on morning rush, inbound on a downhill grade between Court House and Rosslyn when the train stopped due to a mechanical problem. The operator exited the cab and moved through the train to check on a problem in another car, and shortly after that the train moved out of position forward (downgrade) then braked to a rapid stop. I know that Metro installed automatic rollback protection on the trains after the 2004 Woodley Park accident, but I (and everyone else) were stunned and, frankly, a bit terrified that the train appeared to roll at all without the operator in control. Later, the operator returned to the cab, took the train to Rosslyn and offloaded, but it left everyone very unsettled. And since Metro's trains do not have emergency brake cords, there is no manual method for passengers to stop the train. Thoughts?
1 reply · active 618 weeks ago
Sounds like the operator was testing to see if he or shee could get brakes off from another cab, since it was on a grade the train coasted a bit when the brakes released, that being the case, the operator had control.
Thank you for the explanation, khroe. In retrospect, that makes perfect sense. One quickly forgets that the operator can control aspects of the train from multiple cabs, not just the one in front. Much obliged.
"Don't touch the Johnson bar! It'll explode the fuel casing! And if the Wilson-Smith indicator gets above one sixty, just turn that little nut down there one quarter turn.
There's a little screwdriver there, just put it in and turn it one quarter. Now listen Billy, we're going into a tunnel don't stand up because the clearance is only four foot, uhh! ... I'm o.k., I was protected by the bill of my Engineer Fred cap!"

-Navin Johnson

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