Unsuck DC Metro: Istanbul Shames DC Transit

Monday, December 17, 2012

Istanbul Shames DC Transit

I have been meaning to write this post for a while since I was in Istanbul about a year ago, but George beat me to it.

My experience was the same, though I was only there for a few days.

I remember the "PIDs" for the funicular up to Taksim Square even counted down by the second.

Be sure to leave your impressions of other cities' transit systems here.

I just got back from several months in Istanbul, Turkey. While there, I didn't have a car and depended on mass transit for pretty much every move.

Let me start by saying Istanbul puts DC to shame. I never, ever ever was offloaded there, and I was a heavy user of the buses, subway, streetcar and even ferries.

Furthermore, it seemed almost magical. When I needed to take a subway to a bus, the bus was there. When I needed to take a streetcar from the subway, the streetcar was there.

And in Istanbul, they even have ferries mixed into the picture. Yeah, they go on a schedule, too. Amazing how a schedule helps riders.

Mind you, I'm talking rush hour, late night, Saturday, anytime.

To paraphrase Steve Jobs, it just worked.

Fares are just over a buck, though on some transfers you do have to pay again.

That was my first experience with a mass transit system outside of DC, and it really opened my eyes. Metro is really not a good value at all, not to mention how shaky the service is.

The U.S. ranks first in nominal GDP while Turkey ranks 17, behind Mexico.

Other items:
26 rail cracks this year (Examiner)

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+7 Vote up Vote down

Todd · 639 weeks ago

I was visiting my wife's family in Sofia, Bulgaria, this summer and the street cars there put the metro to shame. It was clean and on time. And Bulgaria doesn't have a lot of money for infrastructure.

+15 Vote up Vote down

Jason · 639 weeks ago

As I always say about Metro: I can see thinking it's great if you're from Kansas (or hell, if you're from New Jersey and somehow never made it into NYC), but if you've ever dealt with any city with real public transportation, it will drive you insane.

Even small and medium sized European cities will often put Metro to shame in terms of public transportation systems. I spent a couple of months in Heidelberg, Germany--population 150,000--has a pretty extensive streetcar and bus system. Other than a portion of the old city, you could take public transportation pretty much anywhere, and the old city was a huge pedestrian/tourist area so it would have been infeasible to run transit through. The public transit did shut down around midnight, leaving you to walk or taxi home from the bars, but that at least seems to be par for the course in Europe.

1 reply · active 639 weeks ago

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SpareSomeChange · 639 weeks ago

I just had this conversation with somebody from back home. Metro IS fun...if you don't have to rely on it.

+5 Vote up Vote down

trish · 639 weeks ago

To be fair the system in Istanbul is much newer (opened within the last 2 years), doesn't go underground and is limited to two lines. That said when I used the Istanbul system it was always on time (including connections to the ferries), clean and had very helpful staff; all items where the DC system falls short.

1 reply · active 637 weeks ago

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@Southfive · 637 weeks ago

"Doesn't go underground."

As someone who has taken the train numerous times from Osmanbey to Sisli and back, I can say that it does go underground.

+11 Vote up Vote down

John · 639 weeks ago

Metro should be ashamed of itself being blown out of the water by a Turkish transit system. Unfortunately metro knows no shame...

+6 Vote up Vote down

Kara · 639 weeks ago

I like Bostom (which US News and World Report has at #4 in their rankings) among the highlights:

1) it is integrated with the commuter rail ... I could get on at South Station and get off in the far suburbs

2) when pushing a closing time they did not just slam the gate in my face ... I could get in if there was still a train coming

3) while I rarely needed to talk to the station managers there they were always polite

4) the system (even with more information for their maps) is pretty obvious ... I was away from it for a decade or two during some substantial changes and picked up everything quickly by watching other people

5) they *gasp* consider riders intelligent, you can actually walk from car to car if you want to

6) bench seating!!!!

7) yes, the system shows its age in parts but it is MUCH older than the metro

6 replies · active 638 weeks ago

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ddd · 639 weeks ago

I lived in Boston for about a decade. While some of the older stations (Gov't Center/ Scollay Square, Hines and Copley often had a musty smell to them, I never remeber the "oh my God, what is *that*" level of stink in any of their stations.

+4 Vote up Vote down

Kara · 639 weeks ago

Yes, and you could usually ID it. It was not the 'what the hell is that smell like a drowned rat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' that I encountered last week that had everyone covering their noses with scarfs and hands.

+2 Vote up Vote down

John · 639 weeks ago

I live out in Allston, and the above-ground Green line in Boston is poor. They run trains infrequently, and they're always packed. The train is not integrated with the lights in the city, so we spend a lot of time waiting for the lights to change. Lots of the subway in Boston is nice, but the above-ground line is pretty lousy.

Having lived in D.C., NYC, and Boston, I'd have to say that my experiences in DC and Boston have been poor and the experience in NYC was wonderful.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Kara · 639 weeks ago

I do admit most of my experiences with the T were in the city proper with the exception of the commuter rail to Needham.

+5 Vote up Vote down

ddd · 639 weeks ago

Part of that- at least on the "B" branch/ Commonwealth Ave is that there are too many stops, too close together. Does BU really *need* three trolley stops- within blocks of each other?

0 Vote up Vote down

Kate · 638 weeks ago

of course not, they should be able to walk - my campus only had one

/Northeastern alum

+15 Vote up Vote down

hrh king friday 13 · 639 weeks ago

Yeah, but does Istanbul have Jackie Jeter? Nope. So there.

2 replies · active 639 weeks ago

+7 Vote up Vote down

russell.j.coller.jr · 639 weeks ago

Let us now praise the famous men of the Turkish Mafia. (is it that the train system in Byzantium is only partially financed with dirty "one dollar bills" spent by heroin junkies?) Just askin'. Also, criticizing Metro is racist. and Carthage must be destroyed.

+5 Vote up Vote down

Steve · 639 weeks ago

50,000 likes for cathago delenda est

+7 Vote up Vote down

bullsumner · 639 weeks ago

Bangkok. The system there is split between an elevated train system and an underground system. They intersect, but are run by two different transit companies. Regardless of that, I have used the system extensively over the past seven years and never, ever had a single problem with off-loading, delayed trains, etc. The stations, especially the large ones and transfer stations are easy to navigate, filled with permanently housed vendors, clean (and that's saying alot for Bangkok) and well staffed. The platforms indicate where to stand for train doors and are continually staffed by security personnel. Escalators are efficient, fast, clean and always work. Stairs are used very often for many of the smaller elevated stations. The destination announcements on trains are pre-recorded, clear, and are spoken in both Thai and English. Suicide attempts are impossible on the Underground. The tracks are separated from riders by a glass/lucite wall with doors that open when trains arrive. Years back, just after the army coup that deposed the prime minister, there were several bombs that went off around the city, though none on the transit systems. There were cursory bag checks when entering the system, but each check took about 5-10 seconds as you entered a station via a stairway or escalator. No one was pulled out of line to enter, they just happened almost on-the-fly as one entered.

+7 Vote up Vote down

Mary · 639 weeks ago

I was in London for a weeks vacation and I definitely think that puts metro to shame. its well lit and as someone who has poor vision i didnt feel like i was going into the dungeons like here. I cant really speak to timeliness as I was also on their subway at peak hours but the announcing system was automated so there was never second guessing what the stop was. it was CLEAN as well! can i just pick up there system and transplant it here?

+3 Vote up Vote down

Chantal · 639 weeks ago

Lived in China last year. I didn't drive the whole time I was there and never once did the public transit system fail me. I never had a single problem on the subways, trains, buses, and bullet trains. I was living in Nanjing, which has a population of roughly 10 million with the vast majority relying on the subway network. I would often take a bullet train to Shanghai and spent many weekends there. Over 30 million people and the subway worked like a charm. It was on time, counted down to the next train, and ran smoothly. Shanghai plans on doubling its subway network as well as Beijing. I ride public transit in the US and it is a mess. DC needs to revamp the entire metro system. I don't know if they have underground bulldozers but now would be the time to destroy and start over. Honestly, maybe we should get the Germans to come over and build it for us. The Germans built China's network and it is fantastic. Yes, you hear of trains colliding every once and a while but it still runs better than the DC Metro. Yes, high speed trains colliding runs better than the DC Metro. And how about some more stops!!! Can we please get over this whole "residential area" nonsense and put more stops. The roads are way too congested and if the Metro actually worked people would probably be more inclined to ditch the cars and move to public transit.

+2 Vote up Vote down

jkuchen · 639 weeks ago

I was in San Francisco about two months ago. I took BART from the airport to my hotel on Market Street and used the Muni to get to my conference on the Embarcadero. The underground part of the Muni (underneath Market Street but above the BART line--it's an interesting setup) suffers the same fate as Metro when it comes to having only two tracks, but at least when a car shuts down, you can take the F or some other surface car on Market to get where you want to go. This was also the same week as the World Series, and things were still manageable. Now mind you, that's just a week's worth of data, but I'd put the SFMTA over WMATA based on my limited experiences.

On the previous thread a while back, I alluded to Singapore. It's been five years since I have been there, but I was most impressed with their system. Then again, if we had all of the structures in Singapore, well, it wouldn't be America.

+4 Vote up Vote down

dcn8v · 639 weeks ago

Lived in Japan. LOVED that the places where the doors would open were marked on the station floor, and everyone queued up. That system ran like greased lightning, even for this clueless foreigner.

1 reply · active 639 weeks ago

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SpareSomeChange · 639 weeks ago

I miss those lines!!

+3 Vote up Vote down

Guest · 639 weeks ago

Off topic, but I just wanted to thank metro for the 15 minute wait for a yellow train at Archive this morning. At least watching the three green trains in a row pass through gave me something to do while I passed the time...

According to the PIDS, there were 2 other yellow trains at one-minute intervals following behind the one that I finally got on. Yay headways!!!!

On a related note: "residual delay"? You're either on time, or not..."residular delay" seems like a term made up by the marketing department to make people feel better about their overly-long waits. "Oh, don't worry, those are just *residual* minutes that you'll be waiting! So, nothing to worry about! Right?"

2 replies · active 638 weeks ago

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Jason · 639 weeks ago

I don't think that "residual delay" is an inherently meaningless term. On a basic level it means "things are not at the standstill they were at during the meltdown an hour ago, but we're not all the way caught back on schedule, either."

I agree that the way Metro uses it is pretty fuzzy, though.

-1 Vote up Vote down

bet · 638 weeks ago

Off topic too but I want to warn the pedestrians I see running between buses at Ballston. Don't do it! You are causing the drivers a lot of anguish and you are in the wrong.

-1 Vote up Vote down

YellowLiner · 639 weeks ago

It isn't even fair to compare Metro to the mass transit systems in Singapore or Tokyo. I would, however, say it looks pretty decent (albeit overpriced) when compared to Bangalore.

+5 Vote up Vote down

SammyDC · 639 weeks ago

There are some days here at unsuck where I am just so tempted to cut and paste all the comments and e-mail them to Sarles. Nah, who am I kidding. Sarles & Co just do not care.

+5 Vote up Vote down

Bob · 638 weeks ago

But but Dave Alpert says the system is fine and needs to be expanded. Why are you guys arguing with him?

1 reply · active 638 weeks ago

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MetroDerp · 638 weeks ago

Servive can be terrible but at the same time need expansion to provide core capacity/redundancy and open up new swathes of DC to Metro access. But seeing as we'll never make progress on that or anything with Sarles as GM, they're entirely linked.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Betsy · 638 weeks ago

I lived in Moscow for four months. The metro there was amazing! The escalators never broke down. Trains came literally every 90 seconds. And, of course, the architecture of the stations made you feel like you were in a soviet palace with chandeliers and statues of communist workers and marble fixtures. Truly gorgeous. I also lived in NYC for around 10 years. I have to say, except for the fact that it closes at midnight every night (including Fridays and Saturdays), the Moscow metro system is better than the NYC subway. Don't get me wrong, the NYC subway is a fabulous transportation system and every time scan my smarttrip card, I long for my unlimited monthly metro card!

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Guest · 638 weeks ago

Unsuck can you do a piece on safety and get the numbers on how many pedestrians run between buses to get to the sidewalk or their bus that is leaving?

1 reply · active 638 weeks ago

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dcn8v · 638 weeks ago

Who keeps those stats? The sidewalk police?

+4 Vote up Vote down

olgaindc 22p · 638 weeks ago

Betsy beat me to it. Moscow. 11 million people. The system is older than DC's by at least couple of decades. Severe winters. EVERY. 90. SECONDS there is a train. There would be riots in the city if the Mowcow Metro tried to pull a WMATA there even for half a day.

Speaking about Mexico - Mexico city also decent public transit with 10 times the population of DC metro area.