Unsuck DC Metro: Metro's Video Promoting Bag Searches

Thursday, December 16, 2010

Metro's Video Promoting Bag Searches

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+8 Vote up Vote down

anon · 744 weeks ago

wow. 4 cops and a dog to one rider. typical metro

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

That was a training film. Which of course means any resemblance to reality is purely an accident.

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

Is this now going to be a frequent occurance, because I don't have time for this? I have to be places on time from other places I can only leave at a certain time. I don't have time for this nonsense. I'm at the point of just giving up on metro rail altogether. I had to give up in part on it already because it was going to cost me my job if I didn't. While I would prefer to use public transportation I'm not going to lose my job over it and cancel work over when I'm paid hourly and on commission based on appointments and classes.

Just what we need more Communism. Sounds like the terrorists have won and metro is helping them win. Not to mention at night I need to take a bus from the rail, so if I miss a train, as bus service slows and I hit just the time it slows on Thursday nights that could mean an hour wait or having to walk home in the dark-so much for safety.

13 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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dunker · 744 weeks ago

WOW. I am glad they are doing it with all the crazy people that have been arrested recently for planning to blow up Metro trains. You sound like you have something to hide if you are upset that someone is trying to keep you and everyone else safe. You people complain that metro isnt doing enough and when they do you complain they are doing too much. REALLY!! I will gladly take a few minutes of my time if it keeps my friends and co-workers safe that ride METRO. Communism....WOW....grow up. Next thing you know you will be complaining about them arresting the juveniles that cause so much trouble.

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

Tell you what, you can have all of my waiting around for them and we will both be happy.

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Ummmmm · 744 weeks ago

If by "planning" you mean "egged on by the FBI to go to a Metro station and look around" I guess you're right.

Keep hiding from those scary Christmas ornaments.

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

Dunker, I don't even know why I'm bothering to reply to your post, because it seems like a waste of my time. Not to mention don't you think you are the one who needs to grow up if you have to resort to name calling to make your nonpoint? So are you trying to say that me trying to get to work on time when my job requires that I MUST be on time makes me a terrorist? But thanks to this I will have to help further fund the terrorists by buying oil/gas for my car as I can't get from one location to another fast enough with delays on top of, searches, etc.

And please explain to me how this will make us safer, given a terrorist can simply if chosen leave and walk to a different metro station until they get through? Please cite to me where exactly it is I complained about the safety of the system from terrorists? Oh wait I didn't your just making libelous false accusation. Oh and I am grown up-I just didn't grow up to become a sheep.

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Anon · 744 weeks ago

There is an easy solution to your problem. If you need to be at work by a certain time and this might make you late, why don't you just leave earlier?

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

Because I often have to go from one site to the next, catch the earliest train, etc. If you read what I wrote you would know this. But all you can do is criticize, so now go criticize me for driving because I have been left with no other choice.

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Sam · 744 weeks ago

What does this have to do with communism? At least learn what communism is before commenting. Communism is simply an socioeconomic theory that pushes for common ownership of production (and thus entitlement to its resulting goods and services).

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Anon · 744 weeks ago

Yea and give away you hard earned money to people who do not want to work.

I am opposed and don't give it away to strangers. Give it to your family members who want to go to college or start a business.

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Sam · 744 weeks ago

Ok, but you still didn't answer my question. Why in the world are you bringing up Communism? That has nothing to do with security screening.

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dunker · 744 weeks ago

Maybe you should read the post i responded to before you make a half ass comment. I replied to his post about communism.

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

I am concerned about it too. When I am headed to the metro it is not for a leisurely stroll.

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Ummmmm · 744 weeks ago

If you have places to be on time, why would you think Metro would get you there?

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

I don't, but this is just one more layer of delays. In fact, I have had to decrease my use of metro because of this and instead resort to polluting the environment by driving.

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

PS. Also forgot to mention this is idiotic anyway because it won't stop a terrorist anyway because it is random, they can refuse, and then just try again later or at another station until they are successful. It does however stop people like me from using the system though because I actually have to be somewhere on time and can't miss trains especially on weekends when trains run infrequently-I seriously doubt it will work like it does on the video-there will be back-up, etc. This has to be the most illogical thing ever. I'm so glad I have a car and bike.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

Not to mention that to add to the 'it will not work' pile is that it will be done by metro and TSA .... two of the most dysfunctional organisations (barring congress) that I can think of!

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

Exactly my point Kara!

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anon · 744 weeks ago

The train probably blew a "shoe fuse" they blow and there is a loud bang!

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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bet · 744 weeks ago

"The Loud Explosion Sound"

When the train blows a shoe fuse there is a loud explosion sound and it might cause sparks to fly.

The "shoe fuse" is located near the brake shoe.

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Sam · 744 weeks ago

Just a note for those who wish to be well educated on this procedure. Metro is citing MacWade v. Kelly as the precedent for this being legal. In which case, keep in mind that MacWade v. Kelly resulted in several stipulations. The ruling judges determined that such bag searches are legal in public transportation as long as they:

1. "Once the officers select a person to search, they limit their search as to scope, method, and duration. As to scope, officers search only those containers large enough to carry an explosive device, which means, for example, that they may not inspect wallets and small purses." This also means that they cannot open envelopes, folders, and other containers that cannot carry an explosive device. They may not search the contents of your belongings (e.g. papers, ID, etc) under MacWade v. Kelly.

2. "Further, once they identify a container of eligible size, they must limit their inspection “to what is minimally necessary to ensure that the . . . item does not contain an explosive device,” which they have been trained to recognize in various forms. They may not intentionally look for other contraband, although if officers incidentally discover such contraband, they may arrest the individual carrying it." If they open, say, a coin purse or wallet in your bag, it is an illegal search under MacWade v. Kelly.

Additionally, the search must be algorithmically decided. That is, the police can search every 5th person with a bag or every 10th person with a bag. The supervising sergeant is the one that establishes the formula and you have a right to know what it is. They cannot search someone just because they look suspicious.

Finally, MacWade v. Kelly stipulates that the searches must be in the open. At no time are you obligated to go to a private area for further screening, etc.

6 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Matt G · 744 weeks ago

The question isn't of the legality, it's of the usefulness of the exercise (waste of resources and time of both the officers, and the passengers)

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@SchuminWeb · 744 weeks ago

Precisely - this is a waste of everyone's time and money, since pointless security theater won't make anyone safer.

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

Exactly Matt, I'm not even basing my decision whether I ride the metro on the legality of it or not, I'm basing my decision on if I can get to work sites on time without loosing my job for being late or without having to arrive hours early.

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yatesc · 744 weeks ago

Great post, thank you for the information.

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Ummmmm · 744 weeks ago

How does this work after the Underwear Bomber?

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Ever and Anon · 744 weeks ago

Hey if they're gonna swab MY panties he BEST put on new gloves each time! ;-D

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anon · 744 weeks ago

Oh let them do this. They will check for a couple of days then quit. This is just to calm

the public. Metro needs to hire more security and transit officers to oversee the

system but again, no money, no money. Who's got all the money. That is what I want to know.

How much money did Metro get this year 3 billion of my tax money to pay people at

metro? People in other states are irate! They don't even use Metro.

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Moonwolf 58p · 744 weeks ago

If this is a training video, or a video of a training exercise, then someone needs to pull this entire plan, fire the trainers, and retrain every cop who's been through it, they've got the biggest procedural fuck up ever right there.

The officer who does the swab is wearing his tactical gloves (Blackhawk by the looks of them, nice gear, but I digress).

It means he will cross-contaminate every single sample from every other previous sample, including himself if he's been handling his firearm recently (and most cops do, to make sure their gear is secure, by habit).

It's a nice way to push a false positive so you can really harass some hapless rider who's giving you grief about how you're "infringing upon their civil liberties/the constitution/why aren't you fighting real crime" though.

If that's their procedure instead of clean (in more ways than one) gloves for every ETD swab, then this is nothing more than a gimmick because it will false positive if you look at it funny.

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HellOnWheelz · 744 weeks ago

"It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself--anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face...; was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime..."
- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 5

3 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Ever and Anon · 744 weeks ago

Muttering to yourself. Egads - all those people talking on their wireless phones as they walk on by...

Late. All it will do is make us late. More than than normal that is. What a waste. Any intelligent terrorist will easily bypass this lame PR stunt every time.

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jkuchen · 744 weeks ago

Or better yet, if a terrorist sees that they're getting selected, they'll just detonate right there and then.

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@SchuminWeb · 744 weeks ago

That's what I said in my own discussion on it. Detonate right on the spot.

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GlenmontGirl · 744 weeks ago

Taborn - so THAT'S what this guy's name is! Every time I hear it on the announcement about calling the transit police it sounds like he says his last name is "Catoe". I kept thinking, "Did Catoe get his brother the MTPD chief job before he left?"

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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anonymous · 744 weeks ago

Dunknow but he brought a slew of folks from San Fran. The safety guy from San Fran is here now and his Training people from San Fran.are here too.

The former Labor Relations guy from Metro is now in Jersey. These folks don't loose their jobs they just move around, retire then go to another transit company and double dip. I fault the over-site of the whole darn system. No over-site!

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@SchuminWeb · 744 weeks ago

Yeah, Taborn isn't that good at enunciating, apparently. Let us not forget the alleged "In order to prevent death" announcements from earlier this year that stemmed from lack of enunciation.

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guest · 744 weeks ago

I wonder how it feels to be a cop with a random check counter having to let the suspicious guy go by while granny's number comes up?

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horseydeucey · 744 weeks ago

Goodbye Metro,
It was a fun ride... y'know, before everything turned shit-sandwich on us. It'll cost more, take longer, and help kill the planet, pedestrians, and bicyclists, but the only way for me to fight this newest repulsive, hysterical, over-the-top turn of events is to not use your shitty, perpetually late, non-communicating (read: lying), crashy, deathy, over-priced (and rising), non-escalator-working, panhandling-ignoring, knife-brandishing, single-tracking, ceiling-tile-falling, fire-trap, brake-dust-infusing, wrong-door-opening, broken-callboxing, slavery-calling, McGruff-punching, minor-soliciting, station-manager-sleeping, off-loading, and now, random-bag-searching, service... and drive.
Fuck off and die, Metro. May you rot in hell for eternity + infinity for ever and ever and ever, amen.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

I know the feeling. I've had to make this choice too. I hate that I've had to resort to driving, but what can I do-I have to get places on time. On Saturday mornings my job site is very close to a metro station, but after being a few minutes late 1 week due to a rally and no extra trains and then 2 weeks later when there was maintenance that they claimed was scheduled with no trains even on the board and a useless and rude station attendent stuck at the station away from my car, I had to call a friend to get them to drive me to work and as I walked out I said on the phone loudly I won't be doing this again-and I didn't. I love biking when I can-but it's freezing cold winter and I'm not biking in 20/30 something degree weather. Heck if I have to switch trains on the weekend I can even make it faster by bike if you count my walking time to/from the metro. The bag checks are a joke, have nothing to do with safety, and a simply punishing us riders you use the system.

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

Ob question, how are these at all effective if they do not totally secure the system? For example:

Everyone (including metro employees) being searched at every station 24/7. (Oh yeah, THAT will cause some blow-back!)

Full searches, they had a minimal search to look for bomb residue.

Outdoor rail sections locked down ... potential terrorists can either throw something over the fence or drop from a bridge. Even themselves if they want.

Locking down the rail yards.

Controlling access to the busses.

Establishing security perimeters before you even get to the escalators. Which is really interesting the places (like Crystal City) where that is on private property.

etc ...

This is security theatre. It will just annoy people and accomplish nothing.

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

Hmm, does anyone else spot the major timing #fail in this training video? Under ideal circumstances it shows one rider being handled per minute. Since they are examining the bags of every 3 people we have 3 riders per minute. At rush hour (even not 'peak of the peak') you have many more than 3 people per minute entering a single GATE, especially at busy stations (downtown and popular commuter lots). This means long lines even if they have the manpower to maintain several stations.

Somehow I doubt this will last long once employers start getting fed up with always hearing 'sorry I was an hour late and missed the meeting, I was in a security line'. Either that situation or having employees always idling an hour extra at work in the morning to avoid having that problem (which means lost money).

4 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Ever and Anon · 744 weeks ago

Also, how, exactly, to they pull those people out? If I'm in the middle of a crowd moving into the gate and someone grabs my arm without warning, I'm swinging my bag immediately and not thinking for to see if it is a "nice guy" or a "bad guy." Or are they grabbing only the tail-end laggers so as to not disrupt the flow?

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Ummmmm · 744 weeks ago

And long lines = targets. All they've managed to do is move the target from a train to a dense security line. Heckuva job.

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

Not to mention increased access to crowds. To get to a train you need to enter through a gate and go by a bunch of people. If there is a crowd at the bottom of the escalator someone will use that to their advantage. Especially with an explosive on a time delay and a known time to get down the escalator.

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annoyed · 744 weeks ago

No kidding, my appointments are 1 hour long-if I am a hour late I'm sure that is going to go great!

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

Hmm, for those that arrive before rates go up (before peak or before peak of the peak) and are delayed until after that I wonder how metro will handle it. Say 'sorry you were delayed, in appreciation you get to pay more'?

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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@SchuminWeb · 744 weeks ago

In which case, I'm jumping the turnstile.

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· 744 weeks ago

What are they going to do about the numerous hoarder types that infest Metro? Just today I saw a woman with FIVE bags. That will take considerably more than a minute.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Ever and Anon · 744 weeks ago

Good heavens! Now there's another good point. What about holiday shoppers carrying all those Xmas presents?!?!

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anon · 744 weeks ago

Five bags doesn't mean she's a hoarder. You're thinking of bag ladies.

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@deafinthecity · 744 weeks ago

How are you going to do random bags checks when their station managers don't care about bags left on the platform?

How about patrolling certain stations that are prone to fights? How about taking down complaints of harassment? How about responding to calls when someone ipod get stolen?

I await the news of riders getting pissed about the searches making them late for work and such on UNSUCK.

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@SchuminWeb · 744 weeks ago

My own thoughts on Metro's latest bit of security theater:
http://www.schuminweb.com/schumin-web/journal/per...

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Matt G · 744 weeks ago

KEEP FEAR ALIVE

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anon · 744 weeks ago

Unsuck, how about organizing you website into "car pooling" sections and see if riders would agree to (4) to a car to eliminate the need 4 Metro.

The gov could offer tax incentives for 4 in a car carpooling.

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TFUNK · 744 weeks ago

I feel bad for the cops. I'm sure they're not thrilled with the idea either. They're the ones that have to deal with already disgruntle metro riders while conducting searches. It's the suits that deserve the backlash for enacting poor policies.

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horseydeucey · 744 weeks ago

I feel bad for the riders. I'm sure they're not thrilled with the idea either. They're the ones that have to deal with already disgruntled metro employees and cops while having searches conducted upon them. It's the entirety of the WMATA organization (and all associates) that deserve the backlash for enacting, agreeing to, carrying out, and being financially compensated as a result of poor policies.

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HellOnWheelz · 744 weeks ago

Wheelchairs, almost universally, have a pouch/bag built in somewhere ... add the usual backpack/bag for lunch,wallet,electronics/work junk and that's 2 bags to check.

Additionally we have to carry gear to weather proof the chair (in a rainstorm MY getting wet is the LEAST of my worries) & tools/parts to make emergency road repairs (no AAA for chairs) - so make it 3.

Now if I stop at the grocery store on the way home - add another 3 cloth grocery bags. So now we're up to 6 bags to swab and process.

And if I were inclined to sneak contraband in to Metro? The hiding places on a power chair that could be utilized are endless.

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anon · 744 weeks ago

Don't touch my junk!

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Mike · 744 weeks ago

If you don't get in at that station just go to the next station - brilliant!

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capitalspirit 62p · 744 weeks ago

Let me get this straight. Metro couldn't stop that brawl at Gallery Place from going two stops down the line to L'Enfant Plaza a couple of months ago, and now they suddenly have enough law enforcement presence to perform half-baked security theater? Where the heck did they get the extras? Was it the Ministry of Love, or Information Retrieval?

This can't work. WON'T work. Unless Metro searches a healthy majority of bags going into the system, the odds are against them catching something. Even if they do search 1 bag out of every 3 system-wide, at all times, that's still a 66% chance that somebody could get something into the system. And that's just assuming the bad guy relies on dumb luck to get in. Any measure of sophistication only means that the odds against catching a bad guy get worse.

How many checkpoints will there be? There is simply no way Metro can check every ingress and egress in the entire system, all the time. They can't afford it. (If they could, they might be able to keep their escalators running.)

And if MacWade means that the bag searches must be based on blind numbers, and not visibly suspicious behavior, then it's worse than useless. If the search algorithm is 1 in 3, then a terrorist has a 2 out of 3 chance of getting through, purely on dumb luck.

This may, in the end, deter an amateur. Fair enough. But any professional terrorist who's serious enough, is GOING to find a way through security. And WHEN--not if--they do, all this security theater is only going to be the worse for being shown up as ultimately ineffective.

This ain't no way to run a railroad, Metro.

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Terry · 744 weeks ago

I love the person that called this Communism. I am not against this new policy but how in any way is it Communism? Who knew bag searches = form of economic policy? LOL!

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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@SchuminWeb · 744 weeks ago

Seems that the commenter is confusing the theory of Communism with other practices that occurred in Soviet Russia...

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Anon · 744 weeks ago

This random selection and machine swab is utterly too slow, too not right!
Check the bag man!
That is why Metro has canines! All that money paid for training canines where are they?

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phanie · 744 weeks ago

What about the elevators? There are stations where, if you take the elevator, it dumps you right on the platform. There is absolutely no room to do a check between the fare gate and the elevator. Plus, it would not be cost effective to station an officer there. This whole thing is destined to fail.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

Their 'solution' will probably be to turn those ones off. Then tell the people that really need them to walk to the next station. :(

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

I wonder if they just plan to turn off the elevators at those stations during the checks? I mean, it is not like anyone would think it unusual, right? *sigh*

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capitalspirit 62p · 744 weeks ago

phanie, excellent question.

To elaborate, Metro lists 115 entrances for the entire system. Yes, I really did go through and count them all. And I also suspect that number is off, because I seem to recall Reagan Airport having one entrance at each end of the platform, even though Metro only lists one entrance. And some stations have several entry points that are only counted once. For instance, there are actually two entrances to Glenmont, but only one set of gates, and Metro only counts it as one entrance.

Even then, we still can't take that 115 listed entrances at face value, because of, correct, street-to-platform elevators. And in most of those, you're right, there's no room to set up a checkpoint between the elevator and the fare gate. Theoretically, they could set the checkpoints up at street level, but that would tip their hand.

And EVEN IF Metro could inspect every third bag in the system at all times--which seems like a logistical impossibility during high-traffic times--they're still looking at 2 chances in 3 that they'll miss something, right off the bat. And even THAT assumes the inspecting officers are perfect, and don't get bored or burned out, missing something they DO check.

Worse, what if a bomber doesn't even try to get past the checkpoint, and simply blows something up right in front of it? What if multiple attackers do exactly that, at every entrance of a major station?

Random bag checks WILL NOT SUCCEED against anyone determined enough to try something deadly. The only thing they WILL succeed at, is getting more riders furious at Metro, and giving them one more reason to get back in their cars.

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insider · 744 weeks ago

This comment is not meant to scare the hell of you but make you aware how Metro security works at the rail yards. Metro employees have ID badges that the guards are suppose to physically look at. I have never had a guard get out of station to look at mine. Holding up a pack of cigarettes up at the window works or just a wave will work No scanning of work ID badges to enter yards. ID badges are only scanned for a free train ride and the JGB- Headquaters. I brought this concern to suggestions box. I was told "cameras in the yard" Reactive not proactiive, again. Trains operators are "suppose" to do a walk through of the trains assigned to them after they bring train into the yard. There has been incidents that passengers were still on the train. Mostly the passengers were drunk and just passed out. Security at the rail yards is not laughing joke.

Metro wanted to give the riding public and the media a show. Metro is just making a jackass of themselves. Want the public, politicans, and the media to know they are on top of security.

Where in the hell is the FBI? Homeland Security?

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dunker · 744 weeks ago

I say shut all the trains and buses down for a day and see how all you childish asses like it. WAH WAH WAH. You people complain more than a fucking teenager.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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@kara_h · 744 weeks ago

If the trade-off is a better metro I am game. What day at home should I put on my work calendar?

Metro is essentially a utility which we pay for (you can use the argument 'have to pay for' since they hold pretty much a monopoly on public transit in DC). As such we should get good value for our money because we can not go elsewhere.