Unsuck DC Metro: Is Paying to Enter Fair?

UnSuck Fan · 672 weeks ago

Yeah, by the time you enter and leave for every time Metro is FUBAR, the machine deducts your entrance/exit fees so you _are_ left with ZERO! :-P

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jim · 672 weeks ago

Paying a fare and then having to leave without riding because of a failure on metros part has happened to me at least 6-9 times. Very frustrating. I would certainly nominate Metro for being the worst run organization I've ever known.

Radner · 672 weeks ago

That is NOT the last dollar you'll give Metro. As a taxpayer, you're still supporting an organization that freely and openly operates like it does.

Anony · 672 weeks ago

For more on Metro's excuse, see here: http://unsuckdcmetro.blogspot.com/2010/06/pay-to-...

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Dr. Gridlock · 672 weeks ago

I asked my friend Dan Stessel about this matter and he assures me what one person calls overly crowded some would just call "cozy".

You're weclome

3 replies · active 672 weeks ago

Roma · 672 weeks ago

+1000

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Guest · 672 weeks ago

Plus, crowded platforms make it just that easier to flirt! You're welcome.

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@VeggieTart · 672 weeks ago

I'm so sorry. I meant to thumb you up and accidentally thumbed down.

Neenya · 672 weeks ago

In most subway systems you pay to enter - in New York, you pay $2.25 to enter and if you leave, you can't get that back. (Granted, for the 13 years I lived in New York, I never had to walk out of the subway because the service was terrible and I usually had an unlimited monthly farecard (that saved me money instead of being an absurd ripoff), so no harm done.)

But Metro's excuse is ridiculous - the amount of coordination that would take is absurd (you'd have to find someone in the first place, leave home/work at the same time everyday, find them in the lovely lovely crowds of rush hour, etc, etc) - I just want to get out of the system as quickly as possible. If they really are so concerned about that, a short window (hell, even 10 minutes) would solve that problem just fine...

5 replies · active 671 weeks ago

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@thejonrose · 672 weeks ago

Your description of NY omits the important fact that many commuting NYers have monthly passes and therefore there is no marginal cost of entry and exit.

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Neenya · 672 weeks ago

Actually, I said "and I usually had an unlimited monthly farecard (that saved me money instead of being an absurd ripoff)"

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UnSuck Fan · 672 weeks ago

Maybe it should be that New Yorkers don't have Peak of the Peak or Rush Plus or any other absurd names like that. Just because it has all of these "shiny, fun" names, does not disguise the fact that they're GAUGING us!

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anon · 672 weeks ago

What are they gauging us for? To see how gullible we are? They don't need a gauge for that.

16 cents · 671 weeks ago

I was thinking about the NY system when I read this. But how often is the NY system that bad? I have only ridden it during off peak times and it was at the most a 15 minute wait.

I think for us it's also the fact that we already put so much money into it for crappy service, the thought of putting money into it for NO service just makes us angrier.

PJH · 672 weeks ago

This is fairly common around the public transit world. I know it's true of SF's BART, I want to say that it's $5 to enter and exit from the same station. However, on BART, if there is an actual fail (excessive delay, broken train...) they reset your card and refund your money. They also (usually) give free vouchers for the bus.

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Steve · 672 weeks ago

Ugh this is always my nightmare. Get on the platform, end up having to wait 20+ minutes for a train. I don't want to pay the bastards to LEAVE THE FREAKING STATION, and I also don't want to pay the full fare for extremely sub-par service whenever I eventually get to my destination. Either way, it sucks.

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Kevin · 672 weeks ago

This happens to me all the time. It's absurd that Metro can break the rush hour down into fifteen chargeable time-slots (e.g., peak of the crap, near the peak of the crap, total crap, etc.), but it's 'too difficult' to program this functionality into -- wait for it -- SmartTrip cards.

Frankly, one would think that such functionality is both a SAFETY issue and in Metro's best interest. In other words, it relieves overcrowding of the platforms (i.e. safety), and ensures smoother loading of crowded trains (i.e., Metro's best interest).

It is theft, pure and simple.

Vienna Bound · 672 weeks ago

Once, and only once, I encountered a different situation. It was evening rush during a torrential rain storm. All trains were offloading at East Falls Church due to a rail problem further up the line. Shuttle service had been requested - none were immediately arriving. Passengers were everywhere in the EFC station to avoid the downpour to include backed up on the platform as well as on the ground level. After 45 minutes of waiting, the problem had been resolved. The EFC Station Manager opened the gates and let everyone through without having to swipe fare cards. At my final destination at Vienna, the Station Manager did the same.

Again, that was only once and I've not been in a similar situation during the Hurricane fiasco or jumpers that back the system up for hours.

DCRider · 672 weeks ago

Whenever this happens, I just make a mental note to tailgate in and out of the next station to make up for it.

nseibel 20p · 672 weeks ago

If you go to the trouble of emailing a complaint about being charged to enter and leave after discovering that- yet again- there is a delay Metro will send a ticket for a free ride. In other words they will do what they could accomplish far more easily by just letting you out of the station for free. Can't think of any other service provider we pay for failing to do their job.

DC Denizen · 672 weeks ago

This also creates a comical situation at Huntington, wherein people may arrive at the entrance on the upper level, North Kings Highway side, and have to transfer through the station to the lower level, Huntington side to catch their bus (or vice versa). There is a ludicrous system of grabbing a piece of paper at the Station Manager's kiosk, walking through the gate without paying, and then exiting the gate on the other side and returning the piece of paper to the Station Manager on the other side. These pieces of paper are not monitored that I've ever seen, there's just a bin and people grab the sheets and let themselves through the gate.

I imagine this happens with tourists also at stations with more than one entrance. It would be really easy to grab the paper and walk onto a train, hop the gate at the other end... Who would notice? Wouldn't giving a 10-15 minute grace period solve this problem of having to transit through the rail station? I mean, even parking garages give you a grace period, and I think they're some of the biggest money-grabbers in the city.

1 reply · active 672 weeks ago

VeteranRider · 672 weeks ago

I have to say, that this is a great work-around solution to a silly problem. You are right that Metro overall could fix the problem with a grace period as you say, but this piece of paper approach sounds like a station manager using her/his head to solve a problem that Metro created, in a way that actually works for the riders. It is extrememly un-Metro!
(I am only afraid that by highlighting it here, Metro higher-ups will crush it.)

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Anonymous · 672 weeks ago

Please ho. You gots to pay fo ya escalator ride.

4 replies · active 672 weeks ago

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Kara · 672 weeks ago

'ho'? Use english please.

Oh, and that should be 'escalator hike'.

Anonymous · 672 weeks ago

English, Kara. Not a fan of satire?

@VeggieTart · 672 weeks ago

Assuming the escalator is working.

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DC20009 · 672 weeks ago

If it's not working, you still gotta pay for your escalator walk.

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Stan Dessel · 672 weeks ago

You got to enjoy our lovely ambiance. That's worth more than $2. You're welcome.

jkuchen · 672 weeks ago

Even if Metro did decide to change the policy, it would probably take them at least 2 years to reprogram the fare gates. And by then, they will have run out of SmarTrip cards, right?

2 replies · active 671 weeks ago

UnSuck Fan · 672 weeks ago

Yes we will run out of SmarTrip cards way before then. However, that's only because station managers keeps insisting that our SmarTrip cards should practically be bent in half in order for it to work when a machine can't read our card (and they blame US for the problem)! Thank goodness I haven't had this problem yet!

lmnop · 671 weeks ago

You know I actually think the IT people in charge of changing fare gates are probably the smart people in the organization. They reprogram the gates fairly quickly for all these fair hikes.

Rab · 672 weeks ago

This is my complaint about the Metro, I too on countless times went into a station only to find it totally crowed to unsafe levels and leaving OUT THE SAME SET OF STALLS less than 20 seconds later only to be charged for a full ride. This is the biggest FU that Metro can give to a rider. FU Metro, FU and your corrupt cronies...

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Guest · 672 weeks ago

I've had this happen at Metro and what you're "supposed" to do is leave through the emergency exit and when you return to come back on the station, tell the station manager. Then they're supposed to reset your card. This begs the question, WHY can't the station manager do it when the delay is happening? I never got an answer on this. More importantly, when I did come back and ask my card to be reset, THE STATION MANAGER JUST RAN MY CARD AND SO I STILL LOST THE TWO BUCKS! Pitiful system.

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Brandon · 672 weeks ago

Just explain to the station manager the situation and they'll let you leave for free. I recently left something at a store in White Flint and realized it after I'd passed through the gates. The station manager kindly let me out to go get my item, then back in when I came back. No fuss.

Communication is all it takes people. While I certainly agree with folks on this site that Metro needs work, sometimes I think these postings lack common sense.

3 replies · active 672 weeks ago

anon · 672 weeks ago

Try telling them you're not coming back, but that because of delays, you've decided not to take Metro. You won't be treated the same.

jkuchen · 672 weeks ago

That's why you have them open the gate for you first, and *THEN* you tell them that you're never coming back. Timing is everything.

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Anon · 672 weeks ago

Right ......... cause the majority of station managers are responsive, understanding, polite, and awake.

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Guest · 672 weeks ago

This happened to me yesterday. I needed to run an errand a couple metro stops away during my lunch break. I swiped into the station only to find a 20 minute wait for the next train. I couldn't wait 20 minutes since I was under a time constraint, so swiped out, paying metro a fare for no service.

I was doubly peeved because I knew they were doing midday track work on the red line and TRIED to be proactive and avoid the wait using their real time arrivals, which were, as always, inaccurate.

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Guest · 672 weeks ago

If they didn't have a minimum charge people would cheat by starting at two stations (say Vienna and NC) meeting at a midway stop (L'enfant), exchange cards, then the person who got on at Vienna goes to NC and vice-versa, so the card would seem to have gone "nowhere."

6 replies · active 671 weeks ago

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DC Denizen · 672 weeks ago

So give a 10-15 minute grace period before charging. That would give someone time to get into the station, scope out the scene, and get out. Would not give two people time to catch trains, meet up, hand off cards, catch another train, and exit.

Anon · 672 weeks ago

I'm doubt how much that would happen, but you could easily avoid such scams by making the window of time for exiting free something relatively brief like 15 minutes.

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Kara · 672 weeks ago

I am not even going to go into how many unlikely things would have to happen to do that. Not to mention that once somebody is on a train they are not likely to get off (especially risking a major delay) to save a buck or two.

I am going to guess if you did a study it would rate considerably below gate jumpers and employees giving their friends free rides. Not to mention a few orders of magnitude below how much they lose by giving anyone with a safety vest free parking.

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Anony · 672 weeks ago

Do people already do this? If not, why not? It would save a lot of money to do that because entering/exiting same station charges the MINIMUM fare, whereas NC to Vienna is the MAXIMUM fare. They could save $4 doing this already. You're saying that they would do this for a saving of $5.75?

@VeggieTart · 672 weeks ago

And if Metro can program it so you can leave the system at Farragut West and get on at Farragut North and not be charged for two rides--I've used the Farragut Walking Transfer or whatever they call it-- they can find a way to program the system so that if a card is swiped at the entry station within 10 or 15 minutes, no fare is charged. I think you have up to 30 minutes to transfer between Farragut stations.

I'm sure there are people who would try to cheat the system, but given Metro's inconsistency and problems getting the trains to run on time, I'm pretty sure people aren't going to risk long wait times and trying to meet up with someone to cheat the system. It would take far more than the 10- or 15-minute grace time anyway.

Thumbs down? · 671 weeks ago

Also, those circle don't overlap very often. How many Vienna people are friends with people in NC or Largo?

guesty · 672 weeks ago

There are no delays on Metro. A+ work day in day out. Atta boy Sarles.

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LOL, gotcha · 672 weeks ago

So, let me get this straight:

If I buy two smartrip cards and enter/exit on the same card, I'll pay minimum fare each trip?

Card 1 being for my home metro and card 2 my work metro, I'll need to enter the system on card 2 from my work metro, then pretend I lost it at my home metro (I believe you get charged max fare for a lost card, $2.75 off peak (according to Metro's website, who knows if that's right)).
Then, any trip after, I just enter station 1 on card 1, exit on card 2 (which will already be in the system as having entered), and do the opposite on the way home.
Any non-commute trip, just use card 1.

I figure I'd save at least $0.7 every day. For commuters with longer trips, obviously you benefit more.

Not that difficult to pull off either, I'd just keep the cards in opposite sides of my wallet (against the external wall of the wallet).

1 reply · active 672 weeks ago

Anony · 672 weeks ago

It doesn't work. Eventually it times out. I've thought of this and tried it.

K-anon · 672 weeks ago

I had a helpful station manager when a similar situation arose for me last year. There was a bomb threat at the Pentagon City station so metro offloaded everyone at Crystal City (I was inbound). I swiped to get out at Crystal City, so was charged for the Huntington-Crystal City leg. I had to walk to the Pentagon station (cause the metro provided buses had a 60 minute plus long wait). I re-embarked at Pentagon without paying by asking the manager to let me through the emergency gate. She had no problem doing so. I also asked the station manager at L'Enfant to let me through explaining what had happened to me. He also had no problem doing so. So, moral of the story, sometimes, you get helpful station managers and DON'T get ripped off by the 'must pay to exit at same station' dilemma (or perhaps I should say 'phenomena').

1 reply · active 671 weeks ago

dddddda · 671 weeks ago

You know, reading your story, I seem to remember station managers previously having "free ride" cards they could hand out if a customer had a complaint or there was a malfunction in the system. Now, this was way back when Metro's station managers were competent, helpful people, so I imagine the cards started to be abused at some point, but if I'm recalling correctly, the manager had to date and sign these cards, so there was some firewall against abuse. If they really think the risk of letting people out for free w/in 10 or 15 minutes is that high, they should reinstate these passes.

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Frank · 672 weeks ago

I walk 1.7 miles from Union Station (where I come in via MARC) to my work, and back again JUST to avoid having to give these bastards my money, my time, my peace of mind, and my sanity. I know everyone can't do this, but I if you're within this distance range, I'd say most of you probably could (I'm nowhere near in shape -but actually all the walking is starting to pay off!). Screw Metro. Walk. If it rains, buy an umbrella.

1 reply · active 671 weeks ago

dddddda · 671 weeks ago

Have you considered using CaBi for your trip? I do that from downtown to F/N. Cap to avoid the downtown Metro crush of tourists/caps fans/nats fans in the evening.

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ANON · 672 weeks ago

you people make me sick.move,walk or buy a car and stop riding metro if you hate it.

GET A LIFE

2 replies · active 672 weeks ago

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John · 672 weeks ago

Which Metro defender is this?
Stessel, Jeter, or Dr. Gridlock?

SammyDC · 672 weeks ago

Dear Get-A-Life-ANON (a/k/a Mr. Stessel) -- I do not own a car. I cannot, for health reasons, walk or ride a bike from my home to work. There is no direct bus service. I have yet to find an accommodating ride-share or commuter connection. However, if you would like to buy me a nice, shiny new car, I'll quick bitchin about Metro. I've been riding it since 1983 and I can tell you, yes indeed, that it has deteriorated horribly just in the past 5 or 6 years.

Kevin · 672 weeks ago

I always thought the point of the minimum fee was so homeless people didnt board, then ride around the system for hours and then return to original station and exit for free.

I would gladly pay the occasional fee for no/lack of service resulting in me not making a trip than have trips overly crowded with homeless people looking for a place to sleep/panhandle on my trips. Although admittingly a no fee if exiting within 15 minutes of entering would still solve the issue.

2 replies · active 671 weeks ago

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Kara · 672 weeks ago

What they use to get people to ride all day is establish a maximum time for a trip and you pay the max rate if you go beyond it. It used to be 3 hours but hopefully they have raised it as that is now possible on many weekends.

Oh, and you do realize panhandling is already illegal on metro property right? Not to mention I am much more concerned about the operator sleeping than the passengers. Have some actual compassion for other human beings for once.

dddddda · 671 weeks ago

We're talking about allowing a 10 or 15 minute window here...hardly enough time for someone to get on a train and ride around "all day" (given Metro's lack of service, they might not even be able to go one stop round-trip in 10-15 minutes). Besides, with the *2 HOUR* unlimited bus transfer on Smarttrip, and free Smarttrips from service organizations, buses are a better option for homeless people to ride all day for cheap (I get many "transfers" on round-trips or continuing trips - such as ride one bus, do and errand/take a class/etc. and then get my ride home for free).

awerwaefsadf · 672 weeks ago

Consider it a down-payment on future fare hikes.

RGG · 672 weeks ago

I've always thought Metro should program its gates to give you a window--maybe 10 minutes-where you could enter and then leave without getting charged. But maybe that's just me....

That being said, I know of many times the Station Managers have let people out via the emergency/swing gate during a "situation" for no charge and instructed the passenger to simply explain the situation when they re-enter to have their farecard "fixed."

You have to ask, though.......

RGG · 672 weeks ago

Oh, and you don't "pay to enter"

You "pay to leave."

1 reply · active 672 weeks ago

morbid · 672 weeks ago

Part of their policy--if you exit alive, you have to pay; if you die, no charge.

gler · 671 weeks ago

I agree you people should get what they pay for and while fares have not risen on Metro, they should at least give customers better service. As a rider, of 7 years I doubt anything will change to make Metro perfect. Whether its the Metro Express greeters who either are too friendly and get in the way when you are hurrying to the train when you are running 15 minutes late or the initial 18 month Franconia Springfield Metro parking construction project which is now in its 3rd year, or the smell of rancid urine when you are walking out of any metro station. Metro will always deliver the goods.

Dini · 671 weeks ago

Hey, whoa, this happened to me just last weekend. I entered at VanNess only to find out that the next train was coming in 20 minutes. It really pushed me over the edge. I went right to the station manager and told him the situation. He told me I was being "hostile" and "aggressive" before finally shuffling around for an old farecard and (I think) put some credit back into my SmartTrip.

Then gave me a stern talking to about my attitude. Wtf? No, it is not common sense for every single person who wants to walk in/walk out of the Metro to go tell the station manager. It's common sense for them to punch in and punch out and not get charged.