Unsuck DC Metro: Where's the Line?

Thursday, October 28, 2010

Where's the Line?

The news of an alleged terror threat against Metro stations (indictment here) will likely rekindle the debate about how much security is needed in the system, even though Metro says the public was never in any danger.

Back in 2008, with no specific threat cited, Metro announced it would conduct random bag searches, but it's unclear if any searches were ever done.

We asked Metro about that, and this was their answer: "[Metro Transit Police] Chief Taborn said today the possibility always exists that we may deploy some random screening."

Is that the way to go? Should there be more police presence? More cameras? More stings? Does anything else need to be done? What do you think is an appropriate level of security?

Comments (37)

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+20 Vote up Vote down

@FixWMATA · 752 weeks ago

How about they start random drug testing of their employees... start with the ones that operate the heavy machinery (trains and buses).

Or how about they stop running over their own workers while they're working on the tracks.

Or how about they stop locking paying customers in stations at night because nobody bothered to wait for the last train.

Or how about they fix the problems that are accidents waiting to happen, like crumbling station platforms.

How do we expect an organization that apparently knows NOTHING about safety to protect us from anyone - much less themselves.

7 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Ever and Anon · 752 weeks ago

That brings up a good question. Who, exactly, would be doing the searching? Metro cops or professionally trained cops? (Did I really say that?)

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F'n JD · 752 weeks ago

I'm not for random drug testing of anyone. The 4th Amendment requires probable cause, regardless of what the Supreme Court has said to the contrary.

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@FixWMATA · 752 weeks ago

Driving the train or bus I'm on is probable cause enough for me...

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@kara_h · 751 weeks ago

Hey, when I worked for the government in a security cleared position random drug tests were a fact of life. I was not operating machinery heavier than a stapler ... but somehow people operating the vehicles that got me to that job (and could kill people) should get a pass?

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F'n JD · 751 weeks ago

is the Constitution valid or not? bottom line. It's pretty F'n simple. See that JD after my name. It's either a Constitutional democracy or we start fighting each other again over whether or not you need a warrant to test my pee.

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Ever and Anon · 751 weeks ago

Having a job is not a right, it is a privilege. Does your job put the lives of others in your hands? If so, then yes we have the right to make sure you are being fully cognizant and not risking *our* lives. Is your job to lift staplers? Then, no there is no justification at all.

That's the problem with our country these days. It's either black or white. The reality of life is.. it's always a judgement call - the grey areas exist.

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@FixWMATA · 751 weeks ago

I couldn't have said that any better!

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Ever and Anon · 752 weeks ago

The ones they want to catch will never be caught with something as straight-forward as bag searching. If they do then those are the idiots that will never get their efforts off the ground anyway. Might catch a few folk swiping office supplies perhaps... ;-)

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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@kara_h · 751 weeks ago

Right, every time someone tries something and fails (shoe bomber anyone) that is what gets reacted to ... like our having to remove shoes at airport security lines. Whereas the potential terrorists who do something that is being watched for (especially if it failed before) are the ones that are not the brightest bulbs. Personally I would take one of them sitting next to me over someone who will do something that has not been tried before.

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Corresponding Toads · 752 weeks ago

Considering Metro was completely oblivious to this guy "casing" various stations in order to cause the most amount of damage/casualties, I'd say Metro has no defense against terrorist attacks. No amount of transit police is going to prevent some crazy A-hole from blowing stuff up.

Don't be afraid, people - otherwise the terrorists win.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Ever and Anon · 751 weeks ago

"Don't be afraid, people - otherwise the terrorists win. "

Well said!

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Anon · 751 weeks ago

and how do you know Metro had no clue about this gentleman? How do you know he was never stopped?

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anonymous · 752 weeks ago

Where's the line between sting and entrapment?

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Brian · 751 weeks ago

The line is active participation in the formulation of a conspiracy to commit a felony and a physical action in support of the conspiracy. This guy is no differant than the angry spouse who goes to a biker bar looking for a hit man and somebody over hears the inquiries and calls the cops. A scruffy looking cop comes to the bar, is approached and agrees to rub the bum out. During the conversation the spouse may make all sorts of remarks showing that they really want the bum dead in painful and terrible ways, but that is just table talk. As soon as the angry spouse hands over a photo of the target, money and a list of places where they can be found - then you have a crime (which Ahmed did). Talking smack about wanting your spouse (or metro riders) dead is not a crime, but taking physical steps to move a conspiracy forward to make that happen at some point in the future may be. We live in a free country, so Ahmed will get his day in court, as many angry spouse who tried to pay a "biker" to kill their spouse.

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dan · 751 weeks ago

anonymous:

I believe Brian has just showed you the door to meekly exit the building with your tail between your legs.

OT: Kudos to the FBI for their great work.

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F'n JD · 752 weeks ago

Random screenings are illegal under the 4th Amendment as no probable cause exists. So far the Federal Courts have ruled against the Constitution.

I would personally never submit and would take a resisting arrest ticket in order to challenge the search.

It's our Constitution or the terrorists and GOPers win.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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@FixWMATA · 752 weeks ago

Taking a position of authority (airline pilot, train operator, bus operator, etc) where you are responsible for the lives of others should forfeit your right to decline drug testing. If you want to come to work high get a job in a grocery store.

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Sam · 751 weeks ago

I'm assuming that while pursuing your JD, you were taught that it is the job of the judicial branch to INTERPRET the laws and Constitution. You can say that they've misinterpreted it, but you can't say that they've ruled against it because they ruled in favor of their interpretation.

We live in a nation of checks and balances and the Constitution gives the judicial branch the power to make the call on what it says. Just because you may not agree with their call doesn't mean it's invalid. The Constitution is not the end all solution to our problems; it's a framework for running the government. The laws written by the legislative branch and executed by the executive branch run this nation.

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AnonRider · 752 weeks ago

Am I the only one that is less concerned with the terrorists and more concerned with Metro itself? I'm just saying, look at the track record of actual deaths and it is heavily on Metro's side.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Kate · 751 weeks ago

Honestly, this was my first thought, too. The terrorist wannabe was caught exactly in the way the system intends: intel found him, then the FBI caught him. End of story: the system WORKED, nothing happened, it's working as intended. On the other hand, I feel like everyday Metro occurrences -- with the trains and with passengers -- are FAR more likely to cause me harm.

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@VeggieTart · 751 weeks ago

I also understand the suspect in question was at the "wishful thinking" phase of his plan, which is exactly when you want to stop them.

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Todd · 752 weeks ago

Considering the multiple reports of Metro personnel ignoring reports of packages left behind, I doubt that they'll do anything substantive. As passengers have learned, we're on our own!

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MLD · 752 weeks ago

I have no idea why everyone is calling this a "terrorist threat." The guy was videotaping metro stations and giving the information to FBI agents who he thought were Al Qaeda people. There was no threat against the metro, there was no danger at all. It remains to be seen whether this guy went out looking for people to cooperate with or whether the FBI came to him with the idea.

Terrorist threats are basically nonexistent. Bag searches are worthless. I agree, Metro should worry about protecting their own workers and dealing with their own safety problems.

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JR · 751 weeks ago

We are all far more likely to be mugged on Metro than blown up by terrorists. Metro should focus its efforts on the crime that actually *happens* (and with some frequency) rather than vague threats...but that's where the money is.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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@VeggieTart · 751 weeks ago

You're also more likely to get run over by some idiot running a red light, possibly driving a Metrobus. And shut up, Corresponding Toads; I've not only seen buses running red lights, I've been a passenger on buses running red lights.

You're more likely to die of a heart attac or cancer.

Of all the things that are likely to kill you, terrorist attack is pretty far down the list.

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anon · 751 weeks ago

We're more likely to be in a train crash than a terrorist attack on the train itself.

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Meredith · 751 weeks ago

I guess what I find most shocking about this story is that people are surprised. Metro is one of the busiest transit system in the country, located extremely close to major terrorist targets and in capital of the country. Every day that I ride Metro, I assume the risk that there is a plot being developed to bomb it, but I can't live my life waiting for that to happen. Every day that I go running past the White House, one of the tourists at the gate could be wearing a bomb. Every day that my father goes to work in the Pentagon (where he was on 9/11) there is a risk that something could happen again. Of COURSE Metro would be a terrorist target, and it is shocking to me that people who ride Metro every day don't realize that. All we can do is hope that the FBI can keep us safe.____Metro can't conduct screenings like they do at airports -- aside from the manpower required, it would make it almost impossible to move people in an efficient manner. And as we have previously seen, even the thorough airport screenings can't stop those who are determined to cause harm. ____I do think there should be more police on Metro, but that would help with any number of situations, from fights to medical emergencies.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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F'n JD · 751 weeks ago

wow the fears got to you hasnt it...

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Meredith · 751 weeks ago

No, that was exactly the opposite of what I was saying. Was that in some way unclear?

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Mike · 751 weeks ago

Rather than random searches, how about bomb sniffing dogs running around on the Metro cars? Maybe that dog on the Green Line the other day was a pilot program?

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Anon · 751 weeks ago

I see Metro K9s out almost EVERY day doing sweeps of the stations...

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Triple B · 751 weeks ago

For being vigilant, I would like to see WMATA emergency police number plastered in the the train cars and in the station... although not terror related, i needed to call Metro cops bc there was person high on drugs acting aggressively towards passengers. I didnt want to call 911 bc it wasnt a true emergency and i was just about to cross into maryland...

My blackberry is AT&T so since the service is spotty underground, but my verizon non data phone was at the ready.

bottom line by the time i found the number, the gentlemans high sedated him and his eyes rolled in the back of his head....

All this to say spend some of that terror drill money and post emergency numbers and information in the system!

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Guest · 751 weeks ago

Homeland Security should arrest and detain anyone who stands on the left on the escalators.

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TAllen · 751 weeks ago

Regarding random bag searches, what do they do on European transit systems? Europe historically has a much greater problem with terrorist attacks on its transit systems. Do the European systems find random bag searches to be of much value? As far as 4th Amendment protections, I believe the Constitution can be satisfied by making it widely known that random searches will be taking place and you have the choice to use Metro, and allow an occasional bag search, or avoid searches by not using Metro. There is no Constitutional right to use the Metro, unlike the prohibition on random searches of people walking on a sidewalk, where is has been ruled repeatedly that you do have the right to walk outside unmolested unless there is probable cause.

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Over the River · 751 weeks ago

Here we go:

Terrorist Goal: Bomb a Metro station platform crowded full of people.

Conditions: Metro has instituted bag searches at station entrances.

Solution Part One: Go to (one or more of the following stations); Arlington Cemetery, Cheverly, Rhode Island Avenue, Brookland-CUA, Silver Spring (etc.)

Solution Part Two: Drop a large Duffel bag with high explosives, impact fuse, and roofing nails (etc.) on to the crowded platform from the publicly accessible bridge / roadway / building directly above the crowded platform.