Unsuck DC Metro: "Sick of Sick Passengers"

Wednesday, November 16, 2011

"Sick of Sick Passengers"

From Mark:

I've commuted on the New York subway and London Underground for years before moving to D.C. recently, and I can't ever remember a delay because of a sick customer. To be honest, there weren't many delays at all for any reason.

Last week, it seemed like every commute I had was marred by a sick customer. When it happens, it's as if the whole system grinds to a halt.

What's wrong with D.C.?

Are there too many workaholics that insist on going to work even if they're sick? Is all the burning brake smell the reason? Something they use to clean the cars? The jerky rides? Is Metro just saying "sick customer" when something else is wrong?

Anyone have any idea?

From Ashley:

I'm getting really sick of all the "sick passenger" incidents on Metro.

The other day, I was delayed by at least 35 minutes during rush hour because trains were "single tracking between L'Enfant and Pentagon City" due to a sick passenger.

If this had never happened before, I would be a bit more patient.

However, just the other week, I also had serious delays when commuting to work in the morning because of a "single-tracking due to a sick passenger."

What strikes me as a bit odd is that
a) this happens all of the time
b) why the single-tracking? I have heard the "sick passenger" fairly frequently in the past, but the "single-tracking" due to a sick customer seems to be new.

I have lived in St. Petersburg, Russia, spent a considerable amount of time in London, and have visited countless cities with metro systems. Never ONCE in all my memory do I recall delays in any of these places due to a "sick passenger."

And there are far more people riding on these systems than on Metro in DC.

Please explain to me how "sick passengers" don't seem to be an issue in other places, but cause half-hour (minimum) delays on Metro?

Does Metro just have a really poor procedure for dealing with sick passengers, or is Metro just making up this excuse to avert blame?

Do we have confirmed sightings of these "sick passengers?"

Again, I'm willing to accept that people do get sick on Metro, and that there may, from time to time, be a minor delay (and maybe rarely a major delay) but this is at least a weekly occurrence here in D.C.

Something has to be up...

Other items:
Metro is hiring a deputy chief spokesperson (LinkedIn)

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+2 Vote up Vote down

@davinpet · 697 weeks ago

I don't understand why when their is a sick customer they hold train and have paramedics treat the sick passenger on the train instead of removing him/her from the train.

5 replies · active 572 weeks ago

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Anon · 697 weeks ago

Question. What if moving that person killed 'em?

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LMKCRB · 696 weeks ago

Every single time? Let's be realistic.

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Anon · 696 weeks ago

How do you know which time is safe?

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AdaminAlexandria · 696 weeks ago

Then that person isn't "sick," they're a "medical emergency." They're not interchangeable terms, and have completely different connotations.

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@SchuminWeb · 696 weeks ago

Question is, would you want Metro employees with no medical training dragging a person having, say, a seizure, off of the train? I have no problems with delays due to a passenger's having a medical emergency, because it really is best to hold the train and wait for trained personnel to respond.

Now people who deliberately put themselves in the path of an oncoming train are just selfish fools, but for people who have a legit medical emergency on the train, that train must stop and hold.

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orange line rider · 697 weeks ago

Actually-this is a problem in every major city. Ive seen my friends who ride on MTA in NYC post about sick passengers and being held up for time as well. These things happen on public transportation, its just not unique to DC.

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DC Denizen · 697 weeks ago

Last week I was on the yellow line headed towards Huntington, and a scary incident happened- a pregnant woman passed out with no warning and collapsed to the ground. We used the call box at the end of the car to alert the operator (it worked!) and he called ahead to the Pentagon City station for medical assistance.
Once we got there, the driver had to come to the car we were on (the very last one) and assess the situation. Then we moved the conscious but dazed and frightened woman to the subway platform where he stayed with her until another Metro person showed up and we could explain what had happened.

3 replies · active 693 weeks ago

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guest · 697 weeks ago

How long did that take, and after the second person came did the driver get you moving, or did he wait for EMTs, too?

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DC Denizen · 696 weeks ago

I think it took about 10 minutes at the station, total. The operator walked back to the car, we helped the woman off the train (she was able to move on her own), and then the driver of the train waited with her until another Metro employee (not EMTs) came. He relayed what had happened to the other Metro employee, then walked back up to the front of the train and started us moving. There was definitely a delay, but I'd estimate somewhere around 10 minutes. We were out of the station before medical assistance arrived.

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zahzu24 · 693 weeks ago

was the train full? Why wasn't the pregnant woman in a seat?

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DC Denizen · 697 weeks ago

It's true- the train stayed put for about 10 minutes in the station, but after having experienced firsthand the shock, panic, and worry of the event, I was ok with arriving late on the other end to give them time to deal with this incident. People don't head for the Metro thinking, "Hey! I'm going to get sick! It'll be great to inconvenience all the people on this train!" It just happens, just like an accident on a roadway. Yes, it's inconvenient. But in the end, I think Metro handled this incident the right way and got the woman to some help and to a safe place.

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Guy · 697 weeks ago

I can verify seeing multiple sick passengers. I was in a train car during morning rush hour at Dupont Circle (headed towards Silver Spring), when a passenger at the other end of the car started vomiting violently. The passengers hit the call button, told the operator what was going on, and the train was offloaded.

The second time, I was in a train car at Metro Center (also Red line towards Silver Spring) when a homeless man fell off his seat and started convulsing. We were in the front car, so I went out of the car to the front window and told the operator.

What concerned me more was the number of people in the car with the homeless man who wanted to ignore the situation so they didn't get delayed.

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Alvin · 697 weeks ago

It's never happened to me (that I noticed or was told) but I can imagine it's terribly annoying.

My wild guess is that when a passenger declares him or herself sick, Metro doesn't want to move the person but fearing legal liability, basically puts the train into quarantine/isolation until qualified medical personnel can be brought to the scene (even for someone with garden-variety nausea due to erratic train movements).

That's DC for you, where our national pastime is litigation

2 replies · active 696 weeks ago

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Anon · 697 weeks ago

Yeah... God forbid that that sick person has anything other than garden-variety life risking issues here.

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@SchuminWeb · 696 weeks ago

It's the right thing to do, to stop and hold when a passenger is having a medical emergency. The average Metro employee likely has no medical training, and I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want such untrained individuals to even so much as touch me.

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matthew · 697 weeks ago

I've had a situation happen similar to @guy where someone started seizing in my car. It was a serious situation and I'm glad we were able to get assistance for the person.

What really needs to happen is metro needs to give a clearer indication on the type of sick passenger or what is going on. Saying something like "sick customer" makes me think someone just threw up and really perhaps just that car could shut down and then taken out of service at the end of the line.

On the other hand, saying there's a "medical emergency" throws some weight behind it and means delays are bound to happen. 911 was called, ambulance on route, etc. Something serious that requires additional support. (Not that a person throwing up is not serious, I just think of the people who come home from a night on the town and drank too much.)

Basically: we need better announcements in these situations and then taking appropriate actions - closing a car if doable before shutting the whole line down.

6 replies · active 696 weeks ago

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Jamie · 697 weeks ago

Totally agree -- whenever I hear "sick customer" I picture Timmy with the sniffles shutting down the entire red line for 40 minutes. Perhaps calling it a medical emergency instead would help people better understand what's going on.

That being said, I think @Alvin also has something of a point -- metro is probably so fearful of legal liability that they won't do anything until medical personnel arrive. Probably plenty of these sick customers could be helped off the train onto the platform to wait for medics (I thought the only people you absolutely weren't supposed to move were spinal and abdominal injuries??), but Metro doesn't want their fingerprints anywhere near it so we get delayed more often than we need to. Better safe than sorry?

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Last, First · 697 weeks ago

What is with this need to know every bit of detail of an incident -- specifically of the "sick passenger" variety. Your train is delayed and that's probably an inconvenience, but in most cases -- unless you're in immediate proximity to the ailing person -- knowing all of the information will not place you in a role to provide assistance.

We know the drill. A "sick passenger" or "medical emergency" equates to delays on the affected lines. If you're lucky, you can make a conscious choice to minimize the impact the event has on you. If you're not so lucky, you'll have to wait until your train pulls into a station where you can exit. If you're really unlucky, you're the one needing assistance.

We don't need "better announcements," however I will grant that a review/update of procedure is in order.

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AdaminAlexandria · 696 weeks ago

Because knowing the difference allows for a more informed decision. If I hear sick passenger, I might still wait for my train; if I hear medical emergency, I'm more likely to find an alternate route.

Another benefit is that "medical emergency" implies a specific situation - a half hour delay for a medical emergency doesn't make me think Metro is inefficient/unprepared, but the same delay for a sick passenger makes me think that Metro can't handle anything out of the ordinary.

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Last, First · 696 weeks ago

I'm sorry. I can't allow myself to slide into the role of victim that easily. These delays (provided that they are valid and not overreactions or some sinister cover-up by WMATA) typically, ultimately amount to a minor delay in your travels. Regardless of the reason, once you're caught up in the slow-down -- even indirectly -- your schedule will be impacted.

I'm not keen on being so direct, but if your schedule can be so easily and critically impacted, you may need to build a larger buffer into your commutes via Metro or rethink your means of primary and alternate transport.

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@SchuminWeb · 696 weeks ago

I just remember when Metro called the Fort Totten collision "mechanical problems". While that was technically true (telescoping will cause many mechanical problems), it was woefully inadequate. If they had said "COLLISION" like they should have, it would have affected my decisions that day in how I got home.

Likewise, "sick passenger" as Metro uses it could mean "passenger puked on train", and so they have to isolate the car and offload that car (only), or it could mean the paramedics are on their way. "Medical emergency" is more likely to mean the latter, and should be used in such a case.

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n2deep · 696 weeks ago

and who is supposed to make this medical diagnosis? the operator? Central? i would never make the call that they are sick as opposed to medical emergency. i know people who have vomited then died shortly thereafter. metro has been sued in the past because of people not receiving "immediate" medical attention. even though it took longer for medical assistance to arrive at that station than it would have if the train went a couple more stops to closer medical help.
i have responded to these calls in the past. i will ask the rider, if they are conscious, if they can move off the train. i also will offer assistance on helping them move. i have had other riders help move them to a bench in the station. but if they are not responsive or refuse to move then everyone is offloaded until medical assistance arrives. if the EMT's eta is more than several minutes then single tracking is started. and once medical does arrive i have to give central constant updates on when possibly the rider is able to be moved off the train and if the car needs to be isolated due to body fluids. only then will that train be returned to service.
so bottom line is Washington DC people are looking to sue at the drop of a hat.
i have witnessed a gentleman trying to make his way towards a sick rider one day. i initially thought he was maybe a dr. or someone useful. he was a lawyer trying to slip a business card into the sick persons pocket.

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DBS · 697 weeks ago

sick passenger is often a euphemism for suicide by train.

2 replies · active 696 weeks ago

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dave · 697 weeks ago

No that's generally what they use "passenger struck by train" for.

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Metro Ryder · 696 weeks ago

Or passenger "placed" himself in front of train.

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@NoPants_McGee · 697 weeks ago

Another issue that wouldn't have been that much of one had metro opted for a third rail when building the system. Makes me want to go back in time to the 70's so I can punch whoever cut that in the stomach.

4 replies · active 696 weeks ago

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Anon · 697 weeks ago

A third track would certainly be a big help, but before you jump too quickly, consider Metro's history: Given the politics and financing at the time, Metro was lucky to get built in the first place, with two tracks, never mind three.

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Charles · 697 weeks ago

One of the "founding fathers" of Metro was named Cleatus. No joke.

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@SchuminWeb · 696 weeks ago

It's true, read "The Great Society Subway".

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Anon5 · 696 weeks ago

Actually, Metro does run on a third rail system. If you don't believe me, feel free to touch the rail running parallel to the tracks...

Trains have to get their power from somewhere, and you don't see any overhead catenary wires, do you?

Here's a good photo of a 750-volt third rail at West Falls Church:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WMATA_third_rai...

Perhaps you mean a third set of tracks rather than a third-rail?

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hrh king friday 13 · 697 weeks ago

Metro is more interested in killing passengers then caring for sick ones, so yes, they are making it up.

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Last, First · 697 weeks ago

While reading the article, I caught this notice on Twitter:

wmata profile
wmata Blu/Org Line: Trains are single tracking btwn Eastern Market & Federal Center. Sick customer on a train at Eastern Market. Delays. 28 seconds ago ·

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anon · 697 weeks ago

Sue Metro? Ha!

Can't be done. Sovereign Immunity.
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-cou...

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beema · 697 weeks ago

If you are sick or enfeebled or otherwise susceptible to becoming incapacitated on public transportation, DON'T RIDE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. Stay home, have private transportation, something. Not only is it disgusting and enables the rapid spread of disease, but due to the policy of stopping the whole goddamned train for half an hour to remove one person, it really messes EVERYTHING up on the system.

2 replies · active 696 weeks ago

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Ever and Anon · 697 weeks ago

Does unexpected heart attack constitute the spreading of rare disease? Just curious.

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Chek · 696 weeks ago

lol!!! great one!

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Bryce · 697 weeks ago

I'm having trouble finding it, but UnsuckDCMetro did run a story a while back about an older gentleman who was beaten up by some rowdy kids and the train operator was called (via intercom) to stop the train. The operator WOULDN'T do it, and said to just get off and "deal with it" at the next station (and was of no help). That's why I find so many "sick passenger" delays to be strange if train operators are so apathetic toward it.

1 reply · active 696 weeks ago

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@SchuminWeb · 696 weeks ago

I think that's reason enough to pull a door release handle (on the platform side) and force Metro's hand.

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RGG · 697 weeks ago

My take:
(1) Metro has to stop the train so medical personnel can actually _respond_ to the train. It's difficult to treat someone on a moving target, so the train has to stop.

(2) Metro personnel aren't going to remove anyone from the train unless that person can get up and walk off under his/her own power. No Metro people are going to risk doing so when it isn't known what the medical problem is. It may be a liability issue, but it may also be a "safe" issue. From what I understand of it, the medics don't want the passengers moved unless there's an emergency situation takes precedence (train's on fire, smoke in the station).

(3) Bodily fluids will cause that particular car to be placed out of service and be "isolated" from the rest of the train so no one can board it pending clean up.

Interestingly enough, a friend that was an MTPD officer told me once, half-jokingly, that "Metro will stop a train and hold up the entire system for a pregnant woman feeling nauseous, but won't hold the train long enough for us to check it out for a report of a man with a gun on the train."

Those priorities should make _everyone_ feel better!!

3 replies · active 696 weeks ago

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anon · 696 weeks ago

"(1) Metro has to stop the train so medical personnel can actually _respond_ to the train. It's difficult to treat someone on a moving target, so the train has to stop. "

EMTs do it all the time in ambulances. It's not optimal, but it's not impossible.

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RGFG · 696 weeks ago

Actually, what I meant was, that if the train keeps moving the medical folks can't reach the train to administer aid. It's going to be difficult to respond to a moving train.

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@SchuminWeb · 696 weeks ago

Exactly. It makes more sense to stop and hold the train where it is in order for medics to meet the train where it already is rather than try to catch up somewhere en route to a terminal.

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Gun · 697 weeks ago

Fire Sarles!

]Fire Stessel!!

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Kara · 697 weeks ago

The sick passenger issues are usually because of the jerky rides. I once was fine when I got on the train (I was even going to a food festival) but had to get off at Foggy Bottom and throw up.

Why metro insists on delays and single tracking due to a sick customer I have no idea though.

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guestey · 697 weeks ago

Metro makes me sick.

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Ever and Anon · 697 weeks ago

Wow. Heaven help me should I ever have a heart attack on Metro. I cannot believe it seems that Metro would be my only supporter in such a situation. Some hard-core blog readers out here... guess you never had a loved one have an unexpected stroke, heart attack or other event in public. Trust me when I say - VERY FEW strangers will help you but MANY strangers will stand by and watch the painful suffering.

Beloved Unsuck, this may well be the saddest post I've ever read here. Does fit this gloomy weather today I suppose.

4 replies · active 696 weeks ago

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Chek · 696 weeks ago

I hightail it away from vomiters, but I'd help in any other case. And this is coming from a native New Yorker who was taught to never assist seemingly ill people because it's often a ruse to snatch a chain.

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Chek · 696 weeks ago

I admit to hightailing it away from vomiters, but I would, and have, helped in other cases. And this is coming from a native New Yorker who was actually trained to avoid "sick passengers" because they were really chain snatchers in disguise.

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Chek · 696 weeks ago

sorry for the duplicate posts...I didn't think my first reply went through ;)

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Ashley · 696 weeks ago

I am one of the original posters. My apologies if I offended anyone- I in no way meant that sick passengers, or passengers experiencing medical emergencies shouldn't be helped. My point was that, I find the frequency of sick passengers on metro odd, especially since the delays tend to be significant.

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ironmanjt · 696 weeks ago

Heh I was on a train last week where a passenger projectile vomitted over several people. Told the station manager and yet, I saw tweets several stops down the line that the car hadn't been taken out of service.

1 reply · active 696 weeks ago

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@SchuminWeb · 696 weeks ago

Probably should have told the train operator.

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happy · 696 weeks ago

I'm all for doing WHATEVER is necessary to help a sick person on the Metro, but the posters are right. It happens way more often here than any other place I've ever commuted.

Paris-2 years never
London-3 years never
Prague- 4 years never
Barcelona- 1 year never
Shanghai- 3 years never

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BCB · 696 weeks ago

I was on a train when a guy had a seizure. The train actually didn't stop right away even when we alerted the train operator. Once they did, the train had to stop and wait for the ambulance to come and get the guy off the train and out of the station. When this happened it made it a little clearer for what "sick passenger" means. I even was a bit worried about how long it took for the train operator to stop. We hit the emergency button and the train didn't stop for at least three stations. A metro employee got on the train and assessed the situation, started making everyone calm and communicating with the operator. It seemed like a fairly common ocurrence based on how calm and collected the metro employee was. I was impressed with how it was handled. I can't say that very often.

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@VeggieTart · 696 weeks ago

If the person is sick--vomiting, feverish, dizzy--and ambulatory that person should be removed from the train and a Metro employee--say, a station manager--sent to wait with that person until 1) the person fels well enough to continue his/her journey or 2) medical help arrives.

It is only if a person is not ambulatory or moving the person would endanger him/her (fainting, seizure) that the train should be held.

beema, not everyone has the luxury of staying home. Some people have JOBS and can't afford/use private transit. Would you rather have an epileptic riding a train or behind the wheel of a car? Most of these illnesses are not catching. Show a little compassion, huh?

4 replies · active 696 weeks ago

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Ever and Anon · 696 weeks ago

That sounds like medical advice. You a doctor perhaps? :)

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Ever and Anon · 696 weeks ago

That was meant sincerely, by the way. LOL!

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@VeggieTart · 696 weeks ago

No, of course, not, but if a person is ambulatory, why can't s/he be removed from the train so it can continue on its route and minimize delays? Goodness knows I have read enough to know that there are certain situations where a person can be moved and can't be moved.

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DC Denizen · 696 weeks ago

Actually, based on my experience, this is what happens.

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Chek · 696 weeks ago

I used to live in NYC, and the "sick passenger" delays were very common, I just don't recall them being long - usually just a few minutes. MTA Delays were usually about a train ahead of us, police activity, or sick passengers.

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@westwind32 · 696 weeks ago

Never once had a "sick passenger" delay in all my years riding BART. Seems to be another DC metro quirk like how everyone freaks out when it rains, snows a little bit, etc. What a bunch of wimps!

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Guest · 696 weeks ago

12 years ago, once got felled by the flu "near-faints" on a Metro train, and managed to remove myself (barely) off the train to the platform before a LOC. Pushed the platform button, and a great Metro station manager came down and waited with me while medics arrived. Signed a waiver saying I didn't want to ride in an ambulance once I got some strength back. Made it home on Metro bus in a snowstorm....

Two months ago, a woman on my Metro train car turned white to green, and then had a seizure, and I called the folks standing at the end of the car to alert the driver. She regained consciousness, and walked off the train car under her own steam (barely) with a Metro employee who came to help. We were delayed about 5 minutes, but some riders were PO'd about my calling for help and the subsequent delay.

Agree that the lack of tracks doesn't help, Metro can only single track. Would imagine they have limited confidence in their medical response "training" and just follow protocol as a default. RGG and Jamie's points are noted. Thinking also vomit, like poo, is a hazmat and whole other level of SOP.

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Guest · 696 weeks ago

I feel like Metro rides have been a lot more jerky in the past year or so. That coupled with the nasty smell of the cars makes me feel a little woozy sometimes. Luckily, I've never puked on a train, but I can see how some people do.

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Gnatie · 696 weeks ago

I wonder if a sick passenger delay is more noticeable on Metro because of the way the system is constructed. Due to the lack of express tracks and how few routes there really are through the system a single sick person who creates a 10 minute delay for one train creates a delay that affects countless other people.

In NYC, with so many switchovers and express tracks, it is possible to reroute trains around a problem without to much of a delay; a rider may be late if they have to travel back to a skipped station, but most passengers throughout the system would not be inconvenienced.

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jennifer · 696 weeks ago

I've only had one sick passenger experience on the metro ever, and it was on monday. Right afterwards the same train was having door malfunctions. Overall we were probably delayed by about 15 minutes.

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Lisa · 696 weeks ago

I know metro has gotten bad over the past years and everyone is frustrated. I've ridden metro for about 12 years and never saw a sick passenger.e I have heard the announcements though. That being said whatever it takes to get the passenger off the metro and safe is fine with me being late for wherever I am going. You know why because I am not sick and I am thankful. Put yourself in their situation, you cannot always know when you will get sick or God forbid have a life threatening emergency. Think how you would feel, scared alone, embarassed? I was on a plane once where a woman stopped breathing. we had to land the plane in the middle of nowhere and refuel after she got off. You know what though I still made it home safe even though it was a few hours late!

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Guest · 670 weeks ago

There are other safe ways to handle a sick passenger or medical emergency than offloading a whole train and single tracking all others. If there were a doctor and medical supplies on board the car, it would make sense to keep the person there. But the person isn't being helped by staying on the train. Unless it's summer and the train is cooler. First, station managers could be trained to safely move sick passengers. They don't need EMT training for that. Keep a stretcher in each metro station, and medical supplies. Second, the train could continue on to a station with a third track. I believe Grovesnor, Silver Spring and Metro Center have them. Send the EMTs to that station. Third, but not so safe, the passengers could toss the sick person off the train and tell the driver the problem has been solved.