Wednesday, August 25, 2010

Draw a Knife on Metro and Walk Away?


This post has been updated.

As you may have read this morning, the Washington Post reported that a knife was drawn on Metro Tuesday evening.

Here's an alleged firsthand account from Damon:
Four teenagers, three girls and one guy, were fooling around, taking up three rows of seats. One girl started yelling "mother f*cker" at the top off her lungs. I had noise canceling headphones on, and I could still hear her.

I asked the girl to quiet down. She turned to me, and all four started cursing and threatening me.

She even got up and acted like she was going to charge me, but one of the other girls held her back.

Then, a very nice man came over and told me it wasn’t worth saying anything to them.

Right before the doors were going to open, the young man in the group of kids stood up with something cupped in his hand. I could not tell what it was.

I knew he was going to try something, so I stood up, and that’s when the off-duty Capitol Hill Police security guard told him to drop what he was holding in his hands, which turned out to be a knife!

In the end, no charges were filed by the Metro police, but I gave a statement, as did the Capitol Hill cop guard.

This kid is going to kill somebody, and the blood will be on Metro.

I can be arrested for eating chips on the train, but not for carrying a 6-inch blade and pulling it out.

I’m outraged that these kids now know they can do whatever they want, and riders are the ones being held hostage until they decide to get off of the train.
Damon later wrote back later saying he'd been contacted by a Metro detective.

Other items:
Metro fare increases 3.0.2 starting Aug. 29/no more negative balance (WMATA)
Red Line victims trial pushed back (Legal Times)

Comments (50)

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What was the race of the perp and his three "girlfriends?"
14 replies · active 760 weeks ago
Why does that matter? Should we also ask about their religious beliefs?
It matters. We all know the kind of people who caused the massive 70+ brawl at Gallery Place. It would be instructive to confirm (as I suspect) whether the people responsible for this latest knife incident are of the same ilk.
What the hell is wrong with you and why hasn't Unsuck delted this guy's post?
It's not hateful, abusive or overly profane.
But it is useless and would confirm nothing.
AnAsking what race the kids were implies that should mean something to what happened. That is hateful and profane.
Another Dude's avatar

Another Dude · 760 weeks ago

By ilk, you mean race and probably mean Black. First, I don't know that it has been established that the 70 person brawl was Black people or ALL Black people- or can you point to a source that indicates that?

But besides that, I don't think it would tell you much to know the race of any given group of students in DC that are acting criminally. Consider that a 2005 Washington Post article ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/education/da... indicates that 83.6% of DC Public School students are Black. Assuming that the numbers have not changed drastically since then, it would suggest that if you are seeing DC public school students doing ANYTHING--good or bad--they are more likely to be Black just because most students in DC are Black. It does not say anything about Black people in general. There are plenty of Black people that don't behave this way. I think some more relevant factors leading to such behaviors are the ones you do not see: parenting, peer groups, and socio-economic status.
Another Dude's avatar

Another Dude · 760 weeks ago

Oops. This is the link I tried to post above, but I had added a ")" so it didn't work: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/education/da...
Thanks for the article, Dude. The facts tell me that Metro should flood the Green Line and its stations with officers, and minimize stationing officers on, say, the Orange Line west of Fogggy Bottom. And no, Matthew, that's not racist -- it's simply common sense to deal with the demographic aspect of crime on Metro.
You know f***k-all. Really, the entire green line? I ride it EVERY day. Never felt unsafe or threatened. The red line, on the other hand, I avoid like the plague. Why? Because there are more kids on the red line, black, white or otherwise. It is absolutely racist. Don't kid yourself. If that's your opinion - you are entitled to it. But don't pretend it isn't a racist opinion.
Vicki, I'm sorry that the facts disturb you and seem to violate your PC universe. But law enforcement should deal with the real-world threats and not be shackled by political correctness.

I don't ride the Red Line much but take your point that portions of it are threatening. But I very much doubt that youth violence on the Red Line is equal to what it has been demonstrated to be on the Green Line.
What facts? Are we basing this on one fight? That happened between two of the busiest stations (which are also serviced by several other lines and are major transfer points)? It's not about being PC, it's about me getting tired of everyone talking about the green line as though its some sort of no-man's land where the mere flash of white skin is liable to get you pounded. When the reality of my experience is for the last 6 years I've felt perfectly safe riding that line. Are there certain trouble spots within it and within other lines? Yes. But you're making an assumption about a pretty vast swath geography that simply isn't true. If you want to narrow that down a bit - I might give you more credit. But if you're going to lump in every suburban stop on the green line and consider them in the same category as every other major transfer point with the contributing factors of sports events, concerts, bars etc located near those transfer points...well, I think you lose credibility.
AnotherDude's avatar

AnotherDude · 760 weeks ago

Nicely said, Vicki.
2 men injured after late-night assault on Green Line train

By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 27, 2010; B06

Metro Transit Police were called to L'Enfant Plaza Station early Thursday morning after two adult males reported that they were assaulted on a Green Line train headed to Branch Avenue, a transit official said...
Probably the same crack squad that investigates rule violations by Metro employees!
Not sure what the deal is with the knife incident, but yes, Transit Police actually has very good detectives. I was involved in an incident and was contacted my an MTPD Detective just days later and he was extremely helpful and comforting.

I know a lot of readers on here like to take potshots at Transit police, but they really do keep us pretty safe. If you compare the crime stats to the number of riders Metro transports weekly, your chance of being the victim of a crime is pretty slim. Give the guys a break... they have a tough job...
Oh wow. Glad you're OK. Damn kids.
anonymous's avatar

anonymous · 760 weeks ago

I want the Metro police officer charged for dereliction of duty.
anonymous's avatar

anonymous · 760 weeks ago

I had 4 kids get on this morning at Ft. Totten eating gummy bears and drinking slurpees.

Thanks Metro for such solid enforcement.
3 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
I got threatened with a $500 ticket once for eating a cookie.
Did you have enough cookies for everyone? If not, the fine was justified! ;)

More importantly, what kind of cookie? Please provide details when discussing such things.
I was also threatened with a large fine for drinking water in a non-air conditioned car when it was over 100 degrees outside. I told the person to give me the ticket as I would love to protest it based on the conditions of the Metro Metro on that day.
Dragon of Life's avatar

Dragon of Life · 760 weeks ago

Metro has abysmally incompetent police officers. I can absolutely verify that from personal experience.
I was hit by a flying plastic water bottle last year when two teenage guys were rough-housing with each other. Another fellow near me was almost kicked in the face.

When it hit me in the head, both boys cracked up laughing and darted off the train.

I rarely see metro police or detectives on my train rides. I ride every day, both ways.
Not quite the same but Metro needs to do something about the out of service escalators such that there is only 1 escalator for both up and down traffic.

The problem is that people tend to take up both sides going either up or down and I have almost gotten into a few fights when I attempt to go in the opposite direction (i.e. everyone is going up but I need to go down) . I mean I almost have someone fight me as he was not going to move out of the way (I'm talking about Gallery Place I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had issues).
3 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
If you're talking about the same escalator I use at Gallery Place (by the Portrait Gallery), good luck Matt K! The problem is that everyone going in a certain direction, up or down, will assume that NO ONE is heading in the opposite direction even though the other escalator is TURNED OFF! I hate it when, for example, I’m going up and everyone is SPREAD OUT on both sides of the escalator and the people on the left side just plain butt in to the right side of the escalator. If there weren’t in such a frackin’ rush, they’d walk up the escalator on the right side and leave the left side free for people who are walking down. Like everywhere else, especially on the open road, people are “forgetting” that traffic flows in more than one direction.
Another Dude's avatar

Another Dude · 760 weeks ago

I think it's confusing to people also because they are used to other stations--such as Dupont Circle--where the flow of people is unidirectional on an escalator instead of shared. It would not be that difficult for Metro to hire someone to make a sign that clearly indicates this two-way flow of people. Make it standard issue for every Metro station manager, and then whenever such a sign is needed, the station manager slaps the sign on both ends of the escalator. (Insert comment about how Metro is not so good with signs - that's why I suggested they hire someone to make one).
Yeah they need to FIRE DAVID LACOSSE!
Metro needs to step up before someone pulls a Bernie Goetz and turns a subway car into the Wild West.
Rusty Shackleford's avatar

Rusty Shackleford · 760 weeks ago

I thought Metro was ramping up police support now that school is in session? I know they can't be everywhere but from the comments here and my own experience the past couple of days -- the kids are out of control and there's no police support around. What are they waiting for? Between the fare hikes and now the chance of injury or harassment on the train, what does it take to keep us as customers?
It always amazes me how Metro sanitizes their reports and press releases. I've never really trusted them, and now even less. I'd much rather hear the truth so that I can make informed decisions about my commute from Alexandria to Bethesda. It's now costing me $50 a week for the privilege of being spat upon, spun around, poked, prodded and pushed around the stationary esclators, platforms, trains and buses. Perhaps it's too much to ask, but I think we deserve to feel safe.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Another Dude's avatar

Another Dude · 760 weeks ago

Speaking of Metro sanitizing their reports, maybe Mr. Unsuck should add this to the Metro request for records: Their complaints received by Metro via phone and e-mail (these are apparently left out of the Metro Score Card). See here: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dr-gridlock/2010...
I hate most every cop that ever existed because they focus on quotas and arresting/ticketing people and making up bogus things to do this.

That being said, I am an employee on Capitol Hill and have the utmost respect for USCP. They have the right mission in mind. To protect and serve rather than to punish for the heck of it. GO USCP!
WMATA then promptly offered the man/teen who pulled out a knife a job!
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
I heard he was hired as the new station manager at Foggy Bottom today, and Jackie Jeter recommended him for the job.
Michelle's avatar

Michelle · 760 weeks ago

The kids on Metro have absolutely no respect for themselves nor anyone else. I purposefully work late so that I can avoid the bulk of them on my ride home. When I was their age, in the 80s, it never even occurred to me or my friends that we could act in such a disrespectful and consequence-free manner. I've also served on a DC jury and seen first hand how DC parents fail to acknowledge or punish the wrongdoing of their children. Hey DC parents and leaders, get your act together! These kids on the metro are going to be in charge of you and the city one day. If you think getting a copy of your vehicle registration at the DMV is a frustrating and degrading process now, just wait a few years until these kids are the ones sitting behind the counter.
Please allow me to virtually stand in applause of Michelle! :)
Golden Silence's avatar

Golden Silence · 760 weeks ago

That's why I try to avoid Metro as much as possible. I even walk home sometimes lately. I am going to dread when the weather gets colder and it'll be too cold to walk. Sigh.

What will it take to make the trains and buses safer?
Well said, Michelle.

The police can only do so much. Why isn't everyone complaining about the court system that lets all these juveniles off with a slap on the hand?? Or the parents??
I pretty much have no sympathy for DC anymore, and the only way the Metro is going to get any better is with a complete expunging and removal of the old and putting in new, younger people who made that commute who want to see it fixed, that are not there for hugely uncalled for pay.
I really doubt that most people dodge getting arrested on metro when they are caught red handed. If you can go down for french fries, I am sure that a weapons charge is also a "good lockup" for Transit Police. However, I was a frequent teen rider of metro "back in the day" and was even stopped by the Transit Police as a teen. I can virtually guarantee that most times I was on Metro (then and now); I had a pocket knife with me. It is an everyday personal item for me, since I was a boy scout. Why can I carry a knife freely? Because carrying a regular pocket knife is only a crime if you have the specific intent to commit a crime with it (even in DC). Unless you are a moron and tell a cop "I have it just in case somebody needs to get shanked," or you try and cut somebody with it, it is just a tool. I was not there and obviously have no insight into what actually happened, but I have not read anywhere that the kid tried to cut somebody or made any threats to do so.
The article clearly states that he was holding the knife in his hand and that the officer/guard saw it and ordered him to drop it. § 22-4504 of the DC Code states that " (a) No person shall carry within the District of Columbia either openly or concealed on or about their person, a pistol, without a license issued pursuant to District of Columbia law, or any deadly or dangerous weapon capable of being so concealed ... shall be fined not more than $5,000 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years

Brian, read the news article and the first hand account again. Then read the citation from the DC Code. Just by having the knife on the train he was committing a crime. Further, it was concealed, and then brandished. This kid deserves punishment! I'm so sick of all these rich, white, liberal do-gooders who defend the actions of these criminals. Most of these do-gooders can avoid the Metro and drive their BMWs in and out of the city. Maybe their opinions on the matter will change when they are carjacked by one of these thugs or robbed at knifepoint coming out of their fancy restaurant or cinema. In the meantime, the rest of us working stiffs will just have to put up with these little monsters.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Well said.
It has been my experience that these fine 'youths', these shining examples of their 'communities' will never start any trouble when they're alone...but only in a herd of their equally simpleton and uneducated peers. It's a coward's mentality. But then again, how else are you going to act, when there is nothing to live for in your life except unwanted pregnancies, jail time, or lying face down in the gutter all before the age of 19?
Let's give them a college scholarship instead of prosecuting them as they should be...yeah, that will fix the problem....
I was on a train last year where a group of 3 teen aged girls were shouting and pushing other passengers. When a man on the train asked them to be more considerate, one of them (quickly followed by the other 2) began threatening him. The man was in a wheel chair - and the young "ladies" made a point of telling him that he shouldn't think that they won't beat up a cripple. Class acts all the way. I got off the train and looked for someone to report the incident to, without success.
Let’s not say anything offensive because I can already picture what these kids looked like, where they're from, and what their homes are like...and I'm sure I'm pretty accurate…instead let’s give them a college scholarship because their fathers weren’t there for them; they’re victims of society after all - Their grandmothers will rave what good people they are.....momz doesn't bother anymore.

Glad you’re okay.

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