Unsuck DC Metro: A Lonely Voice?

Thursday, August 26, 2010

A Lonely Voice?

We have a contrarian. Anyone else share this point of view?

From Eric C.:

I doubt you'll publish this because it defends Metro, but here goes nothing.

I don't get the uproar over Metro's SmarTrip changes.

First of all, too many seem to brush aside the notion that people will try to game the system, say, by buying a card for $2.50, adding a small amount to it, then taking a trip that costs, $4, and then dumping the negative balanced card, for example. Never underestimate the lengths to which people will go for a "deal."

But let's say there really aren't that many people willing to go this far.

There's a simple remedy to this situation. Take some responsibility and DON'T LET YOUR SMARTRIP CARD RUN LOW.

You don't (or shouldn't) with your checking account, so why would you with your SmarTrip?

I assume your SmarTrip card is your principal way to get to your job, so why be lazy and let it get to the point where it would have a negative balance? I don't know, but it seems pretty simple to, say when you get below $10, uh, add some more money. Problem solved. Better yet, problem avoided.

And while I don't monitor exitfare machine usage, I don't think I've ever seen more than one or two people using them ever, and I ride every day. Seems like most people take the time to have the right fare.

Believe me, I hate WMATA's endless BS just as much as the next guy or gal, and this confusing fare system is insane, and yes, the increases are pure robbery, but getting rid of the ability to run a negative balance on your SmarTrip seems, well, smart.

On this issue, I guess the only "wrong" I see was how the press release was written. It certainly appeared as though Metro was hiding something that was, in my mind, perfectly acceptable for them to be completely candid about.

For the first time, I'm on Metro's side on this one.

TBD has Metro's explanation here.

Comments (51)

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+2 Vote up Vote down

Another Dude · 760 weeks ago

I agree with the article author. It is my impression too that this will not affect many people because most probably just refill their cards when they get low.

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Metro User · 760 weeks ago

I completely agree with this post. Until yesterday's press release, I never knew that you could run a negative balance on your SmarTrip card.

The other side of the topic seems to be: What does metro do with the left over money from paper cards? I'm sure tourists leave the area with money left on their farecards - What happens to that left over money. It is my understanding that WMATA keeps it available for so long then counts it as revenue, but I've not read anything to back this up.

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anonymous · 760 weeks ago

Seconded. Show some responsibility people.

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Jay · 760 weeks ago

The first thing I thought of when I saw posters showing the new $2.50 SmarTrip price was that people would dump negative value cards and buy new ones. So naturally I was NOT surprised when I learned that negative balances would no longer be allowed. This move is so understandable and so logical that I am immediately suspicious of anyone who complains about it. When are consumers ever allowed to have negative money without paying significant penalties? Come to think of it, maybe Metro should allow you to run a negative balance if you register your card, then charge you $35. Would that make all of the complainers happy?

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selophane 83p · 760 weeks ago

I personally don't have a problem with them doing away with negative balances. I just wish the exit fare machines took credit cards.

Since, like most people I've never used an exit fare machine because i always use a SmarTrip, I am a bit confused as to how this will work. Will you buy a paper card from the machine which you will insert after touching your SmarTrip to the contact? Or does the machine add money to your card?

2 replies · active 760 weeks ago

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@danielleRwest · 760 weeks ago

I believe the machine adds money to your card from the way I read the press release. The exit machines are now going to be smartrip enabled, but still only take cash.

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Sarah · 760 weeks ago

Until this announcement came out, I had no idea you COULD go through the exit gates with a negative value on SmarTrip. Seems counter-intuitive that they would have ever done this in the first place.

I very much agree that the exit fare machines should take credit cards. Many people don't carry cash these days (I'm one of them) and if I ever accidently didn't have enough money on my card, I'd be stuck back there.

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Apa · 760 weeks ago

Nope, I don't agree. And when anyone hurls "be responsible!!!!!!" I just have to wonder if they have ever, ever made a mistake in their lives. Or if they're just absolutely, indescribably perfect people.

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JMM · 760 weeks ago

Agree, for all the reasons above. Better question is why do ExitFare machines even exist? I ask as a computer scientist. Why can't they just have the regular fare machines inside the gates, as well (wiring issues aside)? No reason a farecard/SmartTrip couldn't be charged up in the middle of a trip... unless the guys who wrote the software were seriously, seriously lousy (I mean, hell, you could fit the information in literally one bit)

1 reply · active 760 weeks ago

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unsuckdcmetro 92p · 760 weeks ago

Good question!

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Tim · 760 weeks ago

Eric, after thinking on it some, I believe my hangup with the decision is that riders must add value to their Smartrip cards with cash only. That's a terrible oversight, in my opinion. I appreciate your view that a rider should hold the responsibility to ensure they have the fair to adequately pay for the trip they're taking, but now Metro is asking riders to ensure they have cash to pay for that fair in the inevitable scenario that one "runs aground." I find that to be unrealistic and inconsiderate.

To backpedal a bit, however, Metro is not a utility, though I believe they like to pretend they are. Even though they almost hold a monopoly on public transportation in DC, Metro is still in the business of serving customers, which means, while the ends is making money, they're in the business of making people happy they're using the service. Although, the general attitude seems to be that they keep their riders happy enough so that they don't find driving a better alternative. While I'm realistic, I can't stand that attitude of only doing what's good enough.

The point I'm getting at is, while I don't totally disagree with the decision, Metro needs to execute in such a way that it's both convenient and seamless for riders. If this does not benefit riders or if it isn't neutral, riders see it as diminishing their service.

So again, I respect the opinion that people should simply accept more responsibility, but when people are paying for a service, more responsibility is not something they want, nor is it something Metro should force upon its riders. They need machines inside the gates that will enable riders to add value to their Smartrip cards with credit cards.

Otherwise, what's Metro's plan for when a rider runs out of money on his or her card and doesn't have any cash? Metro can't make them wash dishes. They may come up with some kind of really inconvenient solution of which I'm not yet aware, but if I had to guess, it will be the station manager's responsibility to escort those customers to the machines that will accept credit cards. And when that doesn't happen, I bet the service managers will just let those riders go on through. And then Metro loses money.

In any case, the riders aren't going to be happy that now they're late for work, and they're going to blame Metro. You can say it's the riders' responsibility all you want, but that's just not how most people are going to see it. And Metro should have had the foresight to prepare for it.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Apa · 760 weeks ago

Chances are they'll probably make that poor person essentially panhandle for that extra quarter or whatever they need to get out of the station.

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Guest · 760 weeks ago

At least with respect to Metrorail, how difficult would it be to reprogram the gates and to deploy a SmarTrip-enabled Exit Fare machine in each station and rig the SmarTrip cards so that one could not exit with insufficient funds on the card?

Or, alternatively, perhaps the Board can once again rexamine the pros and cons of a tiered fare system versus a flat-rate fare system? Though a flat-rate system would have its inherent, long-debated inequities, it wouldn't have revenue loss because of negative SmarTrip balances (at least not of the same kind). Full charge taken on system entry only.

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Jessica · 760 weeks ago

I no longer ride Metro very often, but I do keep some balance on my SmarTrip card. Now, since I do not ride very often, mostly when MARC is having issues and I would be rushing to get to Shady Grove to catch the last bus that goes by my house, I have no clue what is on my card and if it is enough for the trip I need to make. I have no problem with them not letting us exit without the proper fare, but I often don't have much cash on me, which would leave me stuck. I do not think it would be too much to ask to have exit fare machines equipped with the ability to take payment by credit card. If they could do this, I really wouldn't care.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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superseiyan -99p · 760 weeks ago

Jessica, where do you leave and how do you find the MARC commute? Is it cost-effective compared to Metro?

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Barry · 760 weeks ago

Eric,

You're making the mistake of confusing a systematic problem with a personal problem. An individual who makes the mistake of not having enough fare on their card might be "wrong," but except on a personal level, that persons wrongness doesn't matter. What matters is that the system needs to function as smoothly as possible. Passengers and station managers will be inconvenienced by this new policy, regardless of who we blame for it.

Metro often makes this mistake. Their door problems are a perfect example. If one out a thousand passengers is going to do something stupid to the doors that cause them to break, which puts an entire train out of service, then that's a problem with the system. You can get as angry as you want at the idiots who cause the door malfunctions, but it won't get us anywhere, because the idiots aren't going away. What we want is doors that don't break, and so the solution is doors that are passenger proof.

I do agree with you that people will game the system if the SmartTrip cards cost $2.50 and they can hold a negative balance. But the mistake is lowering the price of the SmartTrip card in the first place. The cards should always cost at least as much as the most expensive ride on Metro.

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Kat · 760 weeks ago

My problem with not letting smartrip users run into the negative is that, at least for now, you can't use your credit/debit card at the exitfare machines. I don't carry cash and I hate using the ATM. I don't have a bank here and while I'm refunded my ATM fees, I prefer to use my debit card because it keeps my budget in check.

Also, why are they reducing the price of a smartrip card to $2.50 if it costs $3 to produce one? Ah, the genius of metro. I understand that they want the less-advantaged to buy the smartrip cards because it's better for all, but why not charge $3.05 for a card? That little bit extra to be paid by the rider would be made up in just a few rail or bus trips and they wouldn't lose money on the cost of the card.

5 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Barry · 760 weeks ago

Did Metro really say they're lowering the cost of SmartTrip cards to help the disadvantaged? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. How poor do they think people are? Anyone who can't afford a one time fee of $5 can't afford to regularly ride the Metro.

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Kat · 760 weeks ago

Apparently $5 is too high of a fee if they're not getting the takeup rate they want. Lowering the cost will hopefully raise the buy-in and the marketing I've seen previously simply about the difference in fares between paper farecards/cash payments on bus and smartrip seemed to be aimed the the less well-to-do. I'm presuming that since that marketing started roughly a year ago, they're not seeing the results they want to they are lowering the smartrip price. As someone who rides the bus, my observation is that most bus riders, at least on the routes I'm on, actually still pay cash

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jkuchen · 760 weeks ago

I thought that the reduction in SmarTrip's price was to get the tourists to buy a card for each family member, not just for the one who's driving in and out of the garage. If you're spending a week in DC, the SmarTrip will easily pay for itself when you consider the paper fare card surcharge.

Then again, they probably waited until the end of August to make the change (instead of earlier this month) so that they could bilk all of the August tourists....

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Guest · 760 weeks ago

I figure they'd want tourists to use the paper cards to gouge them.

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Guest · 760 weeks ago

And if I paid the $5.00 when Metro first introduced the SmarTrip card, when do I get my $2.50 back? ;-)

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Edwardaggie98 · 760 weeks ago

In theory, I agree with the sentiment here, but the fact of the matter is, Metro has to make it a lot easier to add value to your SmarTrip Card before this is tenable. You can't refill it online. They STILL haven't linked them to credit cards.

Further, It's a pain in the ass to refill it on a bus (and you can only do small quantities, really, let's be honest). I've never been able to do it at a CVS - whenever I've tried, the staff have no clue how to do it, and apparently it's not self-service there anyway.

So yes, it's entirely feasible that responsible adults will get to a negative balance now and then. But before Metro does something like this, they should make it AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE to keep a positive balance.

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Marie · 760 weeks ago

People don't seem to realize that SmarTrips cost $10. That put a $5 balance on the card AND allowed you to go $5 into the whole at your own expense, not WMATA's. So when you say that people were abusing the system, they weren't. People at a zero balance on their SmarTrip were actually losing $5. I don't know how the new system will work, but that was the old one.

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More is More · 760 weeks ago

I'm confused. If I remember correctly, you can't just fork over $2.50 and get a Smartrip card with a $0 balance. At the current $5.00 price, you have to pay $10.00 and you receive a card with a $5.00 balance right? I'm assuming it will work that way still when the price of the card is reduced to $2.50 in that you pay $5.00 and receive a card with a $2.50 balance.

So, in terms of scheming the system, you're saying that someone will pay $5.00, go the greatest distance, create a negative balance, chuck the card, and do it all over again the next time simply to save a few cents?

If someone can explain this to me, please do!

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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anonnononononny · 760 weeks ago

Right. The cards are not free. With paper Metro cards, people will discard them if there's a little bit of cash left (and since they've already paid for them, that's money in the bank for Metro). But the SmarTrips aren't like that at all. People who have them have already made an investment in the process. If they leave a station with a negative balance, they either have to pay $10 for a new card, refill their current card, or get paper cards.

And honestly, I think most people who use SmarTrip don't want to use paper cards ever again.

So although people do occasionally exit with a negative balance, I bet it's fairly unusual. And I bet that those that do wind up refilling the thing anyway as soon as they can. Remember, you have to use SmarTrip to exit Metro's parking (except for some stations, where you can use a cred card). So the person exits the station with a neg balance and then HAS to add money to the card to pay for parking. It all works out.

If they make it so you can add money to the card before going through the turnstile, then this is a no brainer.

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@deafinthecity · 760 weeks ago

I would be more incline to agree IF Metro had debit/credit on the exitfare machines. They don't. We have to use cash. The end.

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Jennifer · 760 weeks ago

The point isn't wanting to go negative and defraud Metro, it's being afraid of being caught on the wrong side of the fare gate with no cash. All of this would go away with the ability to pay with a credit card from inside the fare gate. Or to link your Smartrip with a credit card like EZ-Pass does.

Although I have to wonder about the backup this will cause at exit fare machines. Is there still only going to be one per platform? Because that's going to cause a major backup if you dramatically increase the number of people who need to use it. Especially since I bet Smartrip users often have no idea exactly how much is on their cards because unlike the paper ones, it's not printed on. I know I've been very surprised to run out of fare on the Smartrip when I thought I still had $10 left.

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John G · 760 weeks ago

WMATA will then also have to reconsider their policy of how many times you can use your credit/debit card in the system per day. Currently you can only swipe your credit / debit card twice per day. If you try a third time you get an error statement. I predict that more people may have to make a third or getter swipe by the end of the day.

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Emily · 760 weeks ago

from the TBD article "We just asked Metro about the change in policy. Angela Gates, from the press office, was sympathetic to the startled masses. She said the new rules are mostly about uniformity: Folks who use paper fare cards need to have the full fare, so SmarTrip card users should, too."

But they're lowering the cost of SmarTrip cards to encourage folks to buy those. Paper fare cards will be obsolete before too long. This sounds like a weak reason to me. But if they're trying to discourage fare-jumpers (though I would NEVER think to do that!) I'm all for it. Anything that brings in more money to the system is a good thing.

When I'm rushing from the bus, to the Metro, to my office, it was a nice convenience to not have to worry about how much money I have on my card. But it's just that: a convenience, and I'll learn to get along without it.

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@jeepsterboy · 760 weeks ago

For me its as simple as this: I pay my taxes at the end of the year as opposed to every paycheck because if the IRS is holding it, then my money can't work for me... same theory on the metro... loading 200$ of fare before hand would be great if they would give me a bit of interest, but otherwise, i can use that money in the meantime instead of letting them "watch it for me"

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Tax Man · 760 weeks ago

Just a bit of tax advice. That's illegal. You are supposed to do withholding and if not, make estimated quarterly payments.

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C.C. · 760 weeks ago

Another perspective: Why is my transit system spending the money to refurbish all those Exitfare machines?

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Stevis · 760 weeks ago

Indeed. Just from refurbishing the exitfare machines, it will take years for them to make their money back on this change in policy. Penny-foolish and pound-foolish, really.

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krikket · 760 weeks ago

This whole mess minds me of a song I have on my Ipod, that not only brings back memories, but gives a rather broad hint of my age..lol. Does anyone else remember The Kingston Trios song "Riding on the MTA?"

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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C S · 760 weeks ago

That would be "Charlie on the MTA," and it has been so enduring that the MBTA in Boston calls its version of the SmarTrip card the "Charlie Card."

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Doyle · 760 weeks ago

My question when reading that the Smartrip card is going down to $2.50 is, when will I receive my refund check for $2.50 for buying the $5 that could hold a negative balance?

For those that tend to take posts to literally, I’m joking.

3 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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@phragments · 760 weeks ago

Seriously though, why is that a joke? That was my first question as well. Of course, the real issue is why does DC even charge for Smartrip cards to begin with? Boston seems to be able to produce a plastic stored fare card and give it to riders for free. Of course you can't go negative on it because they have a flat rate fare that debits you when you enter the system. If they want more people to use the cards and reduce the trash of paper tickets, they could just make the Smartrip card a lot easier to obtain and just refuse entry if it's below $2.50.

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Doyle005 · 760 weeks ago

It was a joke b/c Metro would never refund money. Remember how incredibly poor they are? Thus the peak of the peak of the rush hour peak super fare rates!
Also, can you imagine Metro attempting to refund people? It would be such a debacle.

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jkuchen · 760 weeks ago

The problem with that is that there are several short trips that are below $2.50....

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Anonymous · 760 weeks ago

My main problem with this whole thing is the no credit/debit card thing. I regularly don't carry cash or when I do all I have is a $20 bill. The exitfare machines don't take a large bill so now I need to try and get someone to take pity on me and make change. Isn't the whole point of a transit system to make it easy to get from point A to point B? Metro obviously doesn't get that!

And for those advocating personal responsibility have you looked at those new fare charts? I've been riding for over 5 years now and I couldn't decipher the thing the other day when I looked at one. I was also completely lost as to why I was charged a peak fare after midnight. If a regular rider can't figure it out how do you think a tourist will manage?

I'll add that I was in Boston earlier this year and took the T for the first time ever. I walked into the station and found a cute little fare machine that looked like a small ATM or one of those ticket machines at the movie theater. You could fit 3 of these in the space one of the fare machines here takes up. It had a nice color touchscreen and made sense! Granted it is a flat fare in Boston but within a minute I had added money to a ticket and had browsed the options for passes.

Metro needs to kick the current contractor to the curb when it comes to SmarTrip. They've never delivered anything on time or under budget and things just get worse and worse. Unsuck this would be a great story!

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Anonymous · 760 weeks ago

What is this nonsense about uniformity with paper farecards??? The fares are NOT uniform...what gives with taking this convenience away. SO GLAD I do not use Metro anymore...thank God for bikes.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

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Doyle005 · 760 weeks ago

How was your biking during the blizzards this winters? Does your bicycle have tire chains for those snowy days?

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Apa · 760 weeks ago

Probably not, but you know what? Given the performance of Metrobus during the snowier days and then the blizzards, you're better off with a bike.

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meg9 · 760 weeks ago

I save 4 dollars each day by taking the bus to work and school. I hate the bus, but to save 4 dollars every day, I'll use it.

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Joe · 760 weeks ago

Rather than spending money to enable the exit fare machines to take credit cards, couldn't there be some simple threshold for going negative, such only allowing it after the card has been used 10 times or something? I don't think the fix for this supposed problem is very complicated.

Seriously, how did WMATA take the storyline of lowering the price of SmarTrip card to $2.50 and turn it into a bad news cycle for the beleaguered organization? It seems like WMATA is trying to drum up more bad press for itself by creating a massive problem in their heads that is unlikely to amount to a FRACTION of the money they gave away by waving people through the turnstiles due to problems with the SmarTrip system over the past month.

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chris · 760 weeks ago

For all the people who think that there is a "something for nothing" aspect to the negative balance allowances on those stupid cards please wake up! What if your bank isn't Chevy Chase and you don't have small bills? Oh, give metro $20 which will be worth fewer trips once you actually use that money. Or give some other bank $2.5+ on ATM fees.

Being able to go negative and get into the city is extremely useful. Of course Metro has no interest in service, only in being an employment service for useless people.

Why not just keep the cost of the SmartTrip cards $5? Anyone who can gather $2.5 can get $2.5 more. Considering how metro fares keep increasing is that the REAL reason?

Metro is run by a bunch of shiftless idiots. You could fire easily fire half of them to decrease costs.

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Lexxie · 760 weeks ago

My biggest issue with all of this is that even though they brought the price down of smart cards to I assume entice tourists and locals who only use the paper cards to pay up and get a smart trip for the "ease" of smart trip...I ride the metro every day and I still have not seen a tourist buy a smart trip card. First they have no idea how to use one, and they would DEFIANTLY freak out if they were denied exit because of a negative balance. Metro needs to step up and make sure that not only people who live in DC *and even then, you see locals use the paper cards* that they understand the ins and out of a smart trip.

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Lexxie · 760 weeks ago

I didn't know about the new negative balance thing until I read it here. I never heard about it on the news, and there was only a small article on nbc. I do in fact let my card go into the negative because it is easier to fill it up at the end of my trip rather then miss my train trying to navigate the crazy tourists and crazy locals trying to add money or get a paper card. *I'm a crazy local too* but if I didn't go onto this site I would have not been let through and not known why...and as someone who doesn't often carry cash...I would have been mighty unhappy. I understand why metro is doing this and now I will make sure to always have money, but they need to put it out there more. Plus, they need to start charging for parking on the weekends at metro stations. I'm sorry, do they not know how much money they are missing out on by NOT charging. Think of this weekend and all the people going to the Lincoln memorial!!! I know the shady grove station will be PACKED with Tea Party people going to see Palin. Make them pay their $4 that they never pay...thats just my two cents.

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LTParis · 760 weeks ago

I usually find myself defending Metro when others are quick to condemn, but this is just a dumb idea.

Apparently Metro just really wants to create even more jams at the gate, and their irresponsibility of doing cash-only Exitfares inside the gates just adds even more chaos when it's not needed.

When I was at Shady Grove a couple weeks ago I had exited in a gate that had no working LCD. I knew I was low but I assumed I had ~$6 after the exit. When I went to exit out of the garage I found out I only had jut over $4 on the card and not enough to exit (apparently they instituted this no-negative rule on parking earlier). So I had to wait for people to back up behind me, park, walk to a machine, and charge up.

Would it have killed Metro to allow a negative balance?