Monday, April 18, 2011

"Like Cattle"


Illustration

Addition: this post sheds some light on the doors closing issue.

From Stephen who says he reported this incident to Metro:
On April 13, at Wheaton, we boarded, and then the doors closed on someone's bag behind him. It was caught, and he was struggling to pull the bag in but couldn't.

Instead of doing something about it, the operator made an announcement that the person who was holding the door open was delaying people.

This is not the first time I've seen a driver refuse to release a bag, so I got on the intercom and told her that SHE was holding things up by not releasing the doors.

We got into an argument that ended with her threatening to call the police.

A few weeks ago, I complained that a Metro train door had snatched a woman's purse away from her and taken it away, leaving her on the platform.

Last December, Metro doors closed and separated a woman from a child in a stroller.

In 1999, Metro separated a woman from a very small child. The child panicked, tried to go in the direction of his mother, and WAS KILLED!

No doubt, Metro would blame it on the child's poor judgment.

It's the same attitude they exhibited a couple of years ago, when a Metrobus hit and killed two women crossing the street in a crosswalk, on the walk signal.

Metro's response was to install blinking lights on the fronts of their buses and add a talking alert to warn people that they're coming through!

Metro's solution is to blame the passengers.

How many people does Metro have to kill before it shapes up, does things right and stops treating us like cattle?
Other items:
How will new VA seat on Metro Board shake things up? (Examiner)
Officials invited to discuss Dulles rail station (WaPo)

Comments (82)

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I'm going to have to channel my esteemed amphibious colleague, Corresponding Toads, for this response.

We're all adults, and we know that the doors are going to close when the announcement is made. People make conscious decisions to try and beat the door closure and are then shocked when something adverse happens. I have no sympathy for people that voluntarily do stupid things when they clearly know better.

Once I saw a mother rush to jam a stroller (with child in it) between the doors to keep them from closing so she could board. By Stephen's logic, it was the train operator's fault that this lady shoved her kid in there and used them as a door stop. How dare Metro make her do that! The operator called her out on it, too: "Ladies and Gentlemen, please do not use your children to force the doors to stay open. Thank You."
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Corresponding Toads's avatar

Corresponding Toads · 727 weeks ago

straight out da swamp with my bulbous chin, gonna rhyme all night like I'm tiny tim! thanks for da shout out, homie
Corresponding Toads's avatar

Corresponding Toads · 727 weeks ago

If you have kids and want them to remain living, keep them away from Metro.

Also, keep them inside your house at all times.

And don't let them watch TV.

Make them eat their vegetables twice a day.

And DEFINITELY don't give them internet access for timewasters like Unsuck DC Metro blog!!

Children are our future so don't get separated from them on DC Metro because the next thing you know, your child could be DEAD.
Everyone tries to beat the closing doors. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that if you miss a train, with Metro, chances are you're going to have to wait at least 10-15 minutes for the next one. God, I love paying peak fare charges to wait 20 minutes for a train. But I digress...I actually think I might have to side with the train operator on this one. I feel dirty.

Is it stupid to try and beat the train doors? Yes.
Was the train operator being an obnoxious b*tch? Yes.
Should the person who sent this story in chill out a bit next time and let the operator do their job? Probably.

I also find it interesting that the length of time that the operator refused to open the door was ommitted. Could've been 10 seconds for all we know. And then whoever seen this story in had the nerve to take it upon themselves to yell at the operator? Seems a little ridiculous, if you ask me.

I'm all for more professional Metro employees, but I've seen enough douchebag/idiot/obnoxious riders that I think it's good when they get called out on their dumb behavior.
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
When you're paying peak fare, where in the system are you waiting 20 minutes for the next train? I call BS. 6-10 minutes, MAYBE. But 20? Shenanigans.
Note: on weekend late night service, they charge peak fare, and trains have 20 min headways.
In the defense of Metro, if you had to put up with tens of thousands of riders each day, any one of whom could potentially be holding up an entire train because of their desire to cram one more person on board an already overstuffed car, you'd be a little jaded about somebody calling you up on the intercom and telling you what to do, too. That being said, Metro is inherently an unsafe form of transportation. Most veteran riders recognize this. We also realize that management and the drivers really don't give a rat's hindquarters about the passengers. You take your life (and property) in your own hands when you go through the turnstile. But hyperventillating and implying that Metro wants to kill our children is a bit overboard.
1 reply · active 727 weeks ago
Pretty much all forms of transportation in the dc area are inherently unsafe. From metro to driving to cycling. Sad but true.
I agree with Matt G's comment. I can imagine it happening where someone accidentally has their stuff caught in the door because they weren't paying attention, etc., but every time I've seen something caught it's because the owner of the something was trying to rush on/keep the doors from closing. Imagine being a Metro conductor and seeing this day after day, with people thinking they're so important that they can make everyone wait, screw up the train schedule, and risk screwing up the doors and causing the train to have to offload. I'm talking more about the people who intentionally stick things in between the doors to pry them open as opposed to people who trying jumping on before they close, though the jumping is stupid too, and I admit guilt to the jumping on a couple of occasions when I first moved here.____Also, with regard to the woman separated from a stroller story, I wonder how much a conductor can see...I would imagine if the stroller is on the train, to the conductor it would look just like a woman trying to force her way on.____I'm no great defender of Metro, but the conductors aren't always wrong in this situation. __
I've seen many times when the operator opened the door just enough to release a bag and that was that. All settled and ready to move. They don't have to open them all the way, inviting more retards to try to beat the doors.

The operators in these cases were at best obstinate, at worst guilty of misconduct.
All too often, operators don't allow enough time for everyone to exit/enter. These leads to the rushing....
5 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
Another Anon's avatar

Another Anon · 727 weeks ago

I see this almost every day - it's like the operator is in a rush to pull out of the station and wait in the tunnel for the train ahead to clear the next station.

I believe they actually have to look out the window to make sure the doors are clear, so they can clearly see that customers are still waiting to board. What's the harm in leaving the doors open for an extra 10 seconds.

Having waited patiently for a train, I shouldn't have to rush to get on board just because the operator wants the doors open for as little time as possible.
Doors closing's avatar

Doors closing · 727 weeks ago

Many times trains doors are kept only just long enough for those getting off, then a half-empty train pulls away with a crowd of people stuck waiting for the next train. How many times have you been exiting a train when the "doors closing" announcement was made and you're still trying to exit? I've been stuck on a train after unsuccessfully trying to get off at Dupont Circle at least three times. Only a complete moron would run a train that way, seriously, it makes 0 sense.

Metro operators seem to take things too personally. When someone holds open a door why would the operator act like this is an insult? Just open the door and shut up, nobody's asking for you to berate the customer. Yes, people are stupid, but they're not being paid to do a job like you are, train operator. Seems like the whole organization takes everything personally. Smartrip card didn't register... get ready for the station manager to act like you are personally at fault. I would love to see metro employees given civics exams, funny stuff that would be.
I have had the same experience at Dupont Circle: I would be on a train from Shady Grove to Dupont, but the driver would not hold the doors at Dupont long enough for passengers to disembark, let alone board the train.

From my experience, the passengers get really pissed when the train operator closes the doors before they can leave the train.

Probably two-thirds of passengers from Shady Grove disembark at either Dupont or Farragut North. The doors need to be held open longer at these stops.
I’ve seen this happen so many times at Gallery Place and the chimes sounded today at Pentagon City before I could even get off. There were people still streaming out of my car and the driver was determined to close the doors.
if the train operator decided to hold the doors for an additional 10 seconds at each station then they would never make it to the end of the line any where near their scheduled time. and if you hold it for ten more seconds then you will have the same people trying to dive into the train you had ten seconds prior to that! it is a vicious cycle.
the totten.'s avatar

the totten. · 727 weeks ago

i don't feel bad for people who try to force themselves through closing doors. not at all. ever. grow up and wait for the next train. it's not a huge sacrifice. losing your bag or your child or breaking the doors and causing an "off-load" - that does suck. so how about not *choosing* to cause that?

this is not hard: just stop being an asshole.
If the operators were following SOP, no one would ever get separated from bags, children.

Do you think Metro operators follow SOP?
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
Show me the Metro SOP that isn't a convoluted maze and we'll talk.
There isn't an SOP at Metro that isn't riddled with vague or contradicting directives. Metro SOP's are often written as a knee jerk response to some event, only to be watered down or ignored when the rules become a nuisance.
At rush hour, there's always somebody trying to get on a train. Should they EVER close the doors? EVER?
hrh king friday 13's avatar

hrh king friday 13 · 727 weeks ago

F*ck it, let's go Mad Max. Put sharp metal spikes on the doors.
5 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
Or cattle prods.

Either way, because re-opening doors just encourages these assholes.
I'm curious as to how this poster proposes that the train driver check every inch of the train before closing the doors or driving off. I think that's physically impossible. As a result, I think 100% of the blame for this sort of thing rests on the idiots who try to beat the doors, which they receive ample warning won't respond to blockages the way elevator doors do.
5 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
They're probably the same people who hijack your elevators too.
That would work great if we had one-car trains and people who would back off from the train instead of dry humping them on the way out.
If I recall correctly, metro train operators are supposed to poke their head outside of the cabin and physically look back down the length of the train before closing the doors.

I seem to recall that it's a violation for train operators to fail to look.
Mike, I've seen them slam the doors on all kinds of people. Including elderly people who were trying to get off the train with walkers, etc. Yesterday I even saw a metro employee get the doors slammed on them.
Anne Anony Mouse's avatar

Anne Anony Mouse · 727 weeks ago

Hey, the escalators are eating people and items; the cars just want their fair share.
Yo12345678910's avatar

Yo12345678910 · 727 weeks ago

My heart aches for the child killed in 1999. I think a lot of people (and probably tourists) think that the metro doors are like elevator doors where they will open if you stick a limp in. I always cringe when I see someone sticking an arm in to try and make their train. Would it be so bad to wait the 3 minutes for the next train?
If you're going to act like cattle, you should be treated as such.

Bring on the cattle prods.
I was also crossi.g a street with the walk light and a Metro bus driver was turning while I was in the street. She braked and I pointed to the walk sign (still blinki.g walk). The driver pointed to her green light. Guess keeping to the schedule is mode important than obeying the law about pedestrian right of way.
Now, don'tcget me started about citizen drivers who ignore the yield to pedestrians in marked crosswalks.
5 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
FYI - Walk/don't walk signs do not blink "walk". There are three states to those signs: sold white Walk, blinking orange Don't Walk, solid orange Don't Walk. The blinking orange Don't Walk signifies that if you are already in the crosswalk, keep going. If you haven't yet entered the crosswalk, don't.
So, the first state is "walk haphazardly"? If there are four states, then I concede my point. But in that case, I disagree with the usefulness of the fourth state (or, second in this case). You're ALWAYS supposed to walk carefully through an intersection. I supposed the first state can mean "It's okay to use your Blackberry while walking"... of course, then you wouldn't see it switch to the second state.
Walk/don't walk signs show solid "walk" if there are no cars turning into the crosswalk. They blink "don't walk" when you have to watch out for cars turning.

Yes, it's good to watch. But as I understand it, the pedestrian has the right of way, and the driver is required to wait. A driver who would point to the light as justification for trying to run over a pedestrian shouldn't be driving anything; she should probably be in jail.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen a crowded platform of people just cram onto a train, holding the doors open or just sprinting toward them, when there is clearly another train coming in two minutes.

I gotta side with the conductor on this one, some people are just ridiculous when it comes to catching a train.
5 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
I got yelled at by an 80+ year old woman the other day. I was standing by the first front-facing seat and this lady was SPRINTING at the doors when the chime sounded and yelling "Hold the doors! Hold the doors!". I felt bad for her but I'm not going to be the one to break the doors... if the train was offloaded, I couldn't live with that kind of shame. Yes, I was rooting for her to make it, but she got caught in the doors. She turned at me and said "I said to hold the doors!". I replied, "I heard you, but that doesn't do anything. They aren't like elevators."

Her response? "Yes they are. Obviously you don't ride this system. You must be a tourist."

As much as I love to blame tourists, some of us locals are just as bad.
"Hi, is this your first time riding metro? Let me tell you about our train doors..."
UnSuck Fan's avatar

UnSuck Fan · 727 weeks ago

Sorry Sam, but I would have said what you had written; I would have told her that I wasn't about to hold the doors open and possibly force the train to off-load. I can't believe she made HER lateness be your problem. Sheesh!
It's very difficult to tell off an 80-year-old lady. I assure you.
Agist pig.
Sometimes I think they actually do it on purpose.

Sometimes no weekday mornings on the orange going towards Vienna the wait is 12 min. + and so the train is packed. A lot of riders get off at Ballston and as I try to get on sometimes there is such a crowd that I can't get on the train and I end up being late for work.
I've learned to push though to get on and one time I was forced to use my bag to help me get on the train.

At busy stations, don't you think you would give riders a few extra seconds to exit/enter? Especially when you are forcing riders to wait over 10 minutes during rush hour when I'm being charged extra to ride?
It makes me think the operator is either a.) stupid b.) doing it on purpose
That'll learn him up good.
I don't mind people queueing up in a LIFO manner, where the person who is getting off first (at the next stop or whatever) boards last and waits by the door. If crowded, it makes life a lot easier for people in the middle. There are plenty of times when I'm standing amidst the crowd and someone squeezes past me only to try squeezing past me again to get out at the next stop. Sometimes, when people are trying to squeeze past you from all directions, it is really difficult to maneuver (I usually just get off with everyone, wait, and then get back on... but that's not always possible depending on where you are in the car).

What I really hate (which are the people I think you're talking about) are the ones that push their way to the front as the train is pulling in and stop right inside the door. That drives me nuts. But the people that wait until everyone boards and get on last and wait by the doors... they don't really bother me too much.
As a bit of a claustrophobe who has to rely on metro to get to work, I find the experience much more bearable if I'm by the door. That said, I also don't want to be one of those dillholes that get on first, lean up against the partition by the door, and expect the world to move around them, so wait for everyone else to get on first. Although I do miss the occasional train because of that, the plus side is I get to see a lot of morons thrusting arms, purses, etc. into the doors expecting an elevator-style bounce.
curious george's avatar

curious george · 727 weeks ago

I never surppress the urge to moo at the metro herds.
JacksonsGirl's avatar

JacksonsGirl · 727 weeks ago

I agree with most people on this comment thread. Metro isn't always to blame in cases such as these. I know for me though, I normally have my headphones in and can't hear the little door closing chime. But then, I know where to go on the train where I wont have any real issues getting on. That being said. What makes me even more angry, is twice now I have seen Metro cops jump on the train right when the chimes go off. Their partner or friend doesn't have time to get on, so the other metro cop forces the door to open so the other cop can get on. Twice this has happened. It makes me angry that they think they have the right to mess up the doors any more then we do.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Be careful, the pigs aren't just above the law, they are the law.
I will say that many act like they are catching the last chopper out of Nam, but, on the otherhand, I think the Metro Operators see us as expendable. It's like when you buy a jumbo popcorn at the movies and a few kernels of popped corn fall to the floor on the way to your destination - no big loss b/c you still have a full bucket.
why would people let a frightened 6 year old move to another car?
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
They have more important things to do, obviously!
The Japanese don't have the same notion of personal space as we do, and you will move to the center of the car whether you like it or not. There are much crazier videos out there of crowding on Japanese subways, but this one seems somewhat analogous to a DC rush hour. [youtube xxhPkaYWKJQ&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhPkaYWKJQ&NR=1 youtube]
6 replies · active 727 weeks ago
hrh king friday 13's avatar

hrh king friday 13 · 727 weeks ago

Confucius say, make metro rider as you would bonsai kitten.
No wonder, as noted in a couple of the "Groper" articles, they're forced to designate "Women-only" trains and post "Don't Be a Pervert" signs. Looks like getting to second base is a routine part of their daily commute.
Triple fares for triple employees?
Metro has more money then they know what to do with, they just keep wasting it stupidly and overpaying worthless high ups. Money could easily be found for more "line" workers if metro was run even half better than now.
I lived in Japan for two years, and rode the Tokyo trains regularly. In Japan, they mark the space on the platform where the doors will open. People will queue up at the designated spaces to get on the train. People wait to board until everyone has exited the train, and only then will the line move. When the train is full, the line stops. There are pushers during rush hour, and it is crowded, but normally it's all very orderly. None of this crowding around the door and jockeying for position stuff that happens on Metro.
I agree that those who hold the doors or try to force them open (or jam something in them to keep them open) are selfish arseholes. Also, rushing into the train after the door chimes is risky, and you should be prepared to deal with the consequenses. In some recent instances though, I've found that it is difficult to hear the chimes from outside the car. I don't remember this happening before (perhaps some speakers are broken?). Also, about 5 times since The Snowpocalypse last year, I've encountered trains where one of the car's doors wouldn't open, the lights were on, there were no signs on the doors and the train operator made no announcement to the platform. In 3 of these cases the operator did not give reasonable time for the passengers to make it to the other operating cars, and all who were standing in the wrong place were left. The first 2 times, I did not make it, but the third time I was able to run and wedge myself through the closing doors. What pissed me off most about the first 2 instances is that the temp. was very cold, and that there were seniors left outside (PG Plaza) to wait 15 minutes for the next train.
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
Might want to try getting on the door by the train driver so he at least can see you.
You might think that if the door closing system causes such problems, like delaying passengers when trains have to be put out of service, or children being killed, that METRO would consider a new system, to put a stop to the problems? Do these things happen in other transit systems?

You might think - but you'd be wrong.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
GDopplerXT's avatar

GDopplerXT · 727 weeks ago

You might think that people would learn that mucking around with the doors when they're closing can cause injury, loss of personal items, and removal of trains from service. You might think they'd be smarter about not placing themselves in and near closing train doors, and potentially causing delays for hundreds if not thousands of fellow travelers.

You might think - but you'd be wrong.
At Gallery Place getting off for a Caps game, I once saw someone get caught in the door while they were exiting, his backpack straps were stuck in the door and the car started to move forward with him still stuck to it. It moved maybe 5-6 feet before this terrified guy realized it was probably wise to give up on his backpack. The train ended up stopping a few seconds later because of people shouting.

People hate to make the comparison to New York, but I can guarantee a situation like that would never reach that level of danger with their more responsive doors and drivers.
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
I had that happen to me a couple of months ago at Pentagon City. I was right next to the doors and took one step out as soon as they opened. Suddenly, the doors shut without warning, pinning me by my shoulders with my backpack in the train and my feet on the platform. The door was open for under 2 seconds. My first thought was that the doors would open again since it was obvious that they had not remained open for long enough. But when they didn't, I had the terrifying realization that if the train pulled out, I would be dragged along with it. I struggled and finally popped out of the doors like a cork from a bottle! I hit the platform and turned to stare at the doors and into the faces of fellow passengers who couldn't get off. The train pulled away, leaving me and a two other people as the only ones to escape (this was at rush hour on a Friday). Metro blew me off and the bruises on my arms have faded, but I'm still nervous about the damned doors.
New York and other systems have a door person, can you see clearly 600 ft away with dim lighting perfectly ? I dont think so.
Think about it....
The Train Operators who have killed people all were black and not a thing happened to them. Why are these people charged and or locked up?
These people all getting away with murder and much more!
I actually respect the operator who after sitting 5+ minutes on the platform in Vienna to begin the morning commute, closed the doors (after all the appropriate warnings) and then announced "sir, just remove your umbrella, I'm not opening the doors." She was my hero for the day.
How difficult can it be to be polite ? who hires a bunch of rude drivers ? Maybe it is impossible to detect a surley attitude, or the inability to speak correctly into a microphone. What are the requirements to work in HR, Do you have to know anything about people and behavior ? how about checking references .... how to you tell if someone is a people person, tolerant, considerate.
Guess what I saw yesterday. A metro employee got the doors slammed on them! Apparently they believe in slavery and enslaving their own even between the doors.
Let me start by saying I do not condone door-holding, or stupidly trying to jump on the train as the doors are already closing. However, there have been several times when I've been on a jammed packed platform and have been at the mercy of the pushing crowd to determine whether or not I would get on the train. There have been times where I would have chosen to stay on the platform, but have been pushed on the train. It's those kind of incidences where I see bags gettting stuck, etc. This would definitely be METRO's fault, because if they had more frequent train service, and/or better supervision by station managers and workers the platforms wouldn't get so packed.
as a metro employee out on the line all day i have noticed one thing that i think causes the most problems: people who are on board and standing next to the doors when they opened used to just step outside the door to allow more room for the exiting riders. now i notice that a lot of these same riders will not move out of the doorway to allow for smoother flow of riders. they seem to use the same " since i have earphones on i do not have to acknowledge any one in my immediate vicinity" .

its ME ME ME!
I got stuck mid-door at Rosslyn. There was a Metro employee in the car by the door and they gave me a furious look and told me to "get the hell off!"

Nice, real nice.

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